Interviewer: Good morning, Usha. Thank you
I: very much for agreeing to do the
I: interview for the
I: 'Desis of Silicon Valley Speak: An Oral
I: History'.
I: I am Mantra Roy from the Dr. Martin
I: Luther King, Jr. Library at San Jose
I: State University. Thank you once
I: again for doing this interview.
Usha: I'm happy to be part of it, thank you for
U: inviting me. I: So we'll start with the
I: first question: So tell us about yourself
I: and describe your journey up until now.
U: Okay.
U: So I was born in the southern city of
U: city of Hyderabad in India in Andhra Pradesh [now Telangana]
U: and I spent the first 20 years of my
U: life there. I came to the US when I
U: was 21 to pursue
U: a graduate program in electrical
U: engineering and that was the first time
U: I'd ever
U: left my family. It was the first flight
U: that I had ever taken in my life.
U: I went to upstate New York. I
U: actually enrolled in the PhD program but
U: then very soon
U: realized the cold
U: was something I could not handle so I
U: just
U: finished; I graduated early with the
U: Masters and then I went to Dallas, Texas
U: in
U: at the age of 22. This is back in 1991.
U: I got engaged and
U: married and
U: worked for four years in Dallas as an
U: application software engineer, got my
U: green card,
U: and then decided that you know I wanted
U: to kind of switch gears and do something
U: different. You know, engineering wasn't
U: really my thing, you know. It was a great
U: way to lift myself out of poverty and
U: you know make a career for myself and
U: build a future but it wasn't where my
U: heart was. So
U: I
U: came to Stanford; I applied and came to
U: Stanford for
U: my MBA and I came here in'95 and I've
U: been here since. So I graduated in '97.
U: I spent the first
U: almost 15 or 16 years after my
U: graduation
U: working in Silicon Valley high tech in
U: various
U: product management related jobs.
U: When I left
U: my corporate gig there I led
U: the Entertainment Technologies division
U: for a company that is now called Rovi. It
U: used to be called Macrovision and it was
U: -- it were approximately 100 million
U: dollar
U: revenue business.
U: And then -- this was because, you know,
U: I by then had two kids fairly late in
U: life and
U: my husband's job had him traveling quite
U: a bit -- and so I decided to make a lifestyle
U: change. Like two kids and I was doing
U: consulting, really consulting with the
U: same companies that I've worked with
U: before and I had a very lucrative
U: consulting
U: practice. And
U: then about in 2013
U: is when I became very interested in
U: exploring my own identity here
U: like as an Indian-American, trying
U: to think a lot about -- you know what is
U: my place here because by then I had
U: been away from India for
U: you know almost
U: 23 years and I --
U: but it wasn't until I had kids
U: and I took kind of my foot off the
U: gas pedal, if you will, from my career
U: that I even pondered these issues.
U: And I think part of me felt like somehow
U: home was still India, right until
U: I would say probably the
U: mid-2000s and then slowly you kind of
U: realize that the India you left only
U: exists in your memories.
U: You know, a lot of my my family had
U: moved here already
U: and India had gone through such
U: tremendous changes, especially my
U: hometown. It wasn't recognizable
U: anymore: the way of life, the landmarks,
U: the culture, everything had kind of
U: moved on. And so I was starting to
U: kind of grapple with
U: being between worlds but I also
U: realized that for my kids, you know, this
U: was the only world, only country they
U: know. And so I was trying to kind of make
U: sense of this.
U: So in 2013
U: I started this organization called
U: Sangam Arts. And the idea then was
U: just kind of bring together arts from
U: the Indian diaspora, focused mainly on
U: classical music and dance,
U: and provide those arts with a more
U: expansive platform for quote-unquote
U: mainstream America. So I was still very
U: much thinking about I have something
U: great to offer, my culture is so rich and
U: varied, and I think that other people
U: deserve to learn about it and
U: and enjoy it. So I --
U: that's how I started Sangam but then you
U: know
U: moving forward I kind of realized that
U: the Indian-American, the Desi experience
U: here
U: is different in its particulars.
U: Obviously, you know, we as the community
U: came here and probably in larger numbers
U: post
U: the Hart-Celler Act in 1965
U: but we're just one among many diaspora
U: communities that also have their own
U: rich and varied
U: history and
U: thanks to travel and the world shrinking
U: and communications being a lot cheaper,
U: these communities have very rich
U: arts
U: and cultural expression thriving within
U: their silos.
U: It just kind of occurred to me that we
U: are all living in these little kind of
U: invisible
U: enclaves of Indian-American, Chinese-
U: American, you know, hyphenated
U: Americans and
U: you know some of us feeling more
U: American than others. And so at
U: that moment
U: I kind of then pivoted and launched
U: with my my co-founder for Mosaic
U: Priya Das, this initiative called Mosaic
U: which is kind of rooted in this
U: philosophy that
U: America is no longer a melting pot, it is
U: the mosaic, and we need to develop a kind
U: of cultural competency that allows us
U: all to come as we are and learn to
U: recognize each other as Americans
U: and realize that what binds us is our
U: love for country and its, her values
U: rather than how we look and what we eat
U: and who we pray to and so on. So that's
U: kind of now my life's work. I'm very much
U: committed to
U: furthering the sense of belonging in
U: different communities in America and
U: kind of figuring out ways in which to
U: promote
U: social cohesion, whether that's through
U: kind of intercultural arts or to telling --
U: telling stories
U: or,
U: for example, examining chapters of
U: history because
U: social cohesion requires us to have not
U: just a vision for a future together but
U: also a shared understanding of our past.
U: And obviously with a lot of people who
U: come here at different points in time from
U: different places, we don't have that
U: shared understanding. We also don't have
U: very many collective memories. So
U: Sangam and now
U: Mosaic is about
U: you know strengthening a sense of
U: belonging. And I do believe that me being
U: Desi
U: and having that Desi experience of
U: diversity growing up
U: and being comfortable with diversity is
U: really something that has helped me
U: and my work.
I: That's great, and I will ask you
I: to build on that in my following
I: question, subsequent questions. So before
I: that, since you've been in Silicon
I: Valley for a very long time, what does
I: Silicon Valley mean to you?
U: I'll tell you what it meant to me
U: when I first came. Right when I first
U: came it was simply
U: an opportunity. I mean it was, you know, I
U: came to Stanford.
U: I chose Stanford for over other schools
U: because of Silicon Valley and what it
U: represented in terms of an opportunity:
U: to build a career in --
U: a lucrative career in high tech
U: management. So you know, for me this was
U: kind of like a
U: a great host party for me to latch on to.
U: It also was a place that by then had
U: a fairly large influx of Desis so I felt
U: like
U: you know, I wouldn't feel out of
U: place. You know, we had friends, we had
U: people here that I could call on if I
U: needed help, things like that. So it
U: was really initially simply I had still
U: not disconnected from my identity as an
U: Indian and
U: I still thought of India as home and
U: maybe in some corners of my mind also
U: entertained this notion that I would go
U: back.
U: And so it was strictly at that point
U: opportunity, opportunity from an
U: educational standpoint and from an
U: economic standpoint.
U: So now, you know, Silicon Valley is home.
U: It's, um, it's a place that I have a
U: lot of emotional attachment to but it's
U: also an idea because
U: you know there's --
U: I believe that as probably
U: one of the most diverse locations in the
U: United States,
U: as a geography. Silicon Valley is at
U: the cutting edge of this trend towards
U: increased diversity that is going to
U: impact all parts of America eventually,
U: right, the browning of America, if you
U: will.
U: And so I feel like we are pioneers
U: in a way, you know, and
U: I see -- so I see Silicon Valley as kind
U: of and -- I see it as home but I also
U: see it as
U: an opportunity for us to kind of
U: show that we can
U: realize the full potential of America
U: and all her glory if we can just figure
U: out a way to be more cohesive so we are not
U: just a bunch of people who still
U: continue to see Silicon Valley as just a
U: place of opportunity, but we actually see
U: it as home.
I: Okay great. Now you've mentioned that,
U: you know, being Desi and the exposure
U: to the diversity that, you know, that we
U: naturally I guess experience in India
U: and we don't consciously think about it,
U: you know, by living there but -- So that
U: that informs your
U: your
U: lifestyle, your work, your engagement with
U: Silicon Valley, right? I: So, in that sense,
I: is it fair to say that you identify
I: yourself as a Desi of Silicon Valley?
U: Yes, absolutely. I would say -- I mean that's
U: a big part of my identity, right. I was
U: born and raised. my formative years were in
U: India and also my life,
U: my personal life over here is still very
U: Indian, you know. In fact, I would say
U: in many ways I'm more traditional than a
U: lot of my cousins even that were born
U: and raised in India, in the generation after
U: me and then moved over here. right.
I: How do you say that, what do you mean?
U: Because I was frozen in time, right. My
U: Indian identity and practices, my
U: language, my cuisine, my
U: religious practices, they're all kind of
U: still frozen from 1991 when I left India.
U: The night before I left I still
U: slept right next to my grandmother. I had
U: gone to the same temple, I had gone
U: through all along. So that portion of
U: my life, that aspect of my life is frozen
U:in time.
U: There's additional layers
U: added on.
U: But I think
U: you know that's who I am, right. That's
U: it's a very very strong part of who I am.
U: And I do believe that there's things
U: that about my identity and my thinking
U: that I have shunned over a period
U: because
U: coming here and experiencing life
U: here and all of my the wisdom that comes
U: with it, has really helped me grow.
U: And
U: you know has -- so there's things about
U: me that are less Desi, you know. In my
U: attitudes towards, for example,
U: you know past and color and
U: race are all different. I don't even know
U: what my attitude growing up but I know
U: that it's a lot
U: more
U: secular right now. But I do think I
U: see -- I mean, it's a big part of who I am.
U: You know it's -- I still I speak four Indian
U: languages. I'm, you know,
U: a lot of my day-to-day life includes
U: practices that are very uniquely Indian.
I: Go ahead -- go ahead I don't
I: want to interrupt. U: So I think that
U: I also do think that I have the best of
U: both worlds, you know. I think
U: what has helped
U: me succeed and probably a lot of our
U: other Desi sisters over here
U: succeed is we came here kind of
U: debt-free to go -- to have you know --
U: to get an advanced degree here
U: in college through scholarships. And
U: then we came here kind of
U: having been raised not only in intact
U: families but in
U: in extended families,
U: right? We had aunts and uncles so we were
U: kind of cradled in love. We didn't have
U: money but yet we had a lot.
U: We came here, we got our degrees
U: and we were kind of upwardly mobile.
U: You know, we have English language skills,
U: we have technical skills ,we have skills
U: that this system requires.
U: And at the same time when it came to
U: me being of child-bearing age I had
U: my parents and my in-laws here to help
U: me raise my kids so I didn't need to take
U: a step away from my career. So I believe
U: that we do have the system as it was
U: engineered even though it wasn't
U: engineered for us, with us in mind -- has
U: benefited us
U: as a Desi community. And with that I think
U: comes -- with that kind of
U: privilege comes
U: responsibility and a moral
U: responsibility to do more with it for
U: other people that have not been blessed
U: with the same privilege,
U: whether it's people of color or people,
U: you know, that have been disadvantaged or
U: marginalized other ways.
U: I believe very strongly that Desis --
U: you know, if you look at the stats
U: out there,
U: a lot of people will kind of show with
U: great pride the highest median income
U: group in America is Indian-
U: American, right.
U: As if -- but the idea what we need to take
U: from that is not just this kind of
U: misplaced sense of pride and
U: exceptionalism
U: because it's not -- it's not that we, it
U: is it's not because our culture is
U: superior or our culture values education
U: more because if that were true you would
U: not have as much illiteracy in India.
U: It is that we were
U: hand-picked to,
U: from India to fulfill a certain role and
U: we've done it well.
U: But we have benefited from a system that
U: was engineered to exclude some other
U: people from it.
U: And it took me a long time as a Desi
U: to kind of come to that understanding,
U: you know, because it's all a process of
U: first understanding that you're now
U: American and then looking back at the
U: history of America and understanding
U: what 400 years of American history has
U: meant, looking at our own place over here,
U: and then kind of making the right choice,
U: right? So in that sense I think it is
U: our 'dharma' [Sanskrit: understood variously as universal law, duty], right? to do
U: and to see our
U: brothers and sisters over here
U: regardless of their countries of origin
U: as our 'kula' [Sanskrit: clan, lineage, family] friend which is --
U: and figure out how do we
U: do right by them
U: and not just identify as, you know,
U: Desis, and looking after our own
U: interests or
U: viewing the lens of everything including
U: for example American elections through --
U: for how does it benefit people.
I: Yes.
I. Yes.
I: Yes, I agree.
I: So in that context I would say,
I: since you have lived in in a different
I: city and state before you moved to
I: Silicon Valley and I'm sure you've
I: traveled to other states and in other
I: countries too possibly --
I: What is it about Desis of Silicon Valley
I: that is so distinctive
I: than Desi in, say, Utah, Desi in
I: Rochester, New York, Desi in
I: Florida. I mean, they're very distinct
I: groups. What is it about Desis in
I: Silicon Valley that makes them so
I: vibrant?
U: You know, first thing I think we have a
U: larger population and --
U: but at the same time we're not uni--
U: you know we're not homogenous. So
U: we have a lot more diversity among the
U: Desi population over here on one hand. But
U: we also have something that we share
U: which is kind of a large portion of the
U: Desis in Silicon Valley
U: kind of are rooted in the high-tech
U: environment, right? So we share some
U: things that are the same whether you're
U: software engineer or a product manager. I
U: would say a majority of us here in South
U: Bay probably have some homogeneity in
U: terms of our professional background. But
U: we also have this culture, this diversity
U: like whether it's by language or
U: religion or what have you.
U: In my experience and I lived in
U: Dallas, of course, being in grad school
U: was very different, you know. I was only
U: there for like nine months in
U: RPI and then I came to business school
U: much later.
U: But
U: in other places I think there's two
U: different things. One is the numbers are
U: smaller
U: and also probably there is more
U: diversity in the professional realm,
U: probably people working in more
U: industries.
U: You know, I just
U: can't say how things are right now but
U: a lot of people tell us that we make a
U: mistake when we just kind of assume that
U: all Desis in America kind of have
U: this, you know, software engineer and
U: making good money and, you know, having --
U: living in good homes. There is just a
U: large diversity in and among Desis as
U: well, like Desis in Central Valley, right?
U: I think a lot of it has to do with
U: the point at which they entered
U: America, right? Their journey. There's
U: diversity in points of entry, modes of
U: entry in the sense that you come here on
U: a visa to go to grad school or did you
U: come here as a dependent, you're
U: sponsored by relatives. There are
U: people who came here maybe as refugees
U: or you know people from -- based on some
U: kind of financial hardship.
U: Entry point matters, right? And
U: I think that in Silicon Valley
U: we have this big chunk of people that
U: over the past 30 years have been
U: associated with the high-tech industry.
U: So I think there's probably, at least in
U: my interactions -- I don't see enough
U: diversity on that vector of
U: profession. I do see a lot of
U: diversity in terms of, you know, your
U: place of origin in India, the language
U: you speak, or the culture that you
U: identify with.
I: Right, right.
I: It's true.
I: So in
I: Silicon Valley, for example, and you may
I: have heard this statistic, too: that for
I: example Carnatic music is practiced more
I: in Silicon Valley
I: than maybe even Tamil Nadu and
I: the rest of southern India because of
I: the number of people. So why, what makes
I: these cultures,
I: like these cultural artifacts flourish so
I: much here?
U: That's a very good point. In being in
U: the arts I can kind of talk to that. I
U: think part of it is what I had mentioned:
U: you know, we left home
U: at a point when we didn't really -- we were
U: only focused on kind of making a future
U: for ourselves from a professional
U: standpoint, lifting ourselves out of
U: poverty. I did not spend any time growing
U: up, even though I was surrounded by
U: Carnatic music and Bharatanatyam, it was
U: not something I had any time to spare
U: for
U: because we had one goal only, you know:
U: get into that engineering college, crack
U: your entrance exams, then you take your
U: GRE, and then get out of there. It was
U: only when I came here in my thirties
U: that I took up Bharatnatyam. In fact I
U: debuted with my daughter in 2012.
I: That's great.
U: You know, it becomes more precious to you
U: and you talk a lot with people.
U: I think the the arts,
U: especially performing arts, is a way for
U: the diaspora to stay connected with
U: their roots
U: and to pass the connection on to their
U: kids, right. So I had my daughter start
U: her Bharatnatyam lessons at age five
U: and she is a very accomplished dancer
U: now and it's a big part of who she is,
U: and she has learned so much about
U: not just mythology but the practice of
U: dance, how it's evolved. She's got an
U: interest in temples as a result.
U: So I think people find that in the
U: absence of --
U: you know, we don't have the same kind of
U: organized religion where you go to
U: church and you have Sunday school.
U: But we have organized practice of
U: culture
U: and that becomes important, especially
U: for those who are non-religious like I
U: am. I would say I'm more
U: culturally connected than religious
U: and so for me the the ritual of going to
U: Sunday dance class with my daughter
U: was was such an important thing. It was a
U: way of kind of discovering myself. I
U: learned so much about my own culture
U: after coming here. So I
U: think that's that and of course there's
U: also the more mundane aspect of
U: the commerce of of art: the only
U: people that are able to make money in
U: arts, whether it's in Indian arts or
U: otherwise, are teachers,
U: right?
U: Performing artists do not make nearly
U: enough money, right. They are not -- it's the
U: teachers that make money. And it's
U: because of this kind of need for
U: people to learn arts and feel like
U: they're part of it. Not all of them are
U: going to succeed and have KACHERIS and
U: and you know.
U: But I think
U: the process is valuable and teachers
U: play a very key role
U: and that's why you see that it
U: thrives. And also the other thing is
U: especially here organizations like South
U: India Fine Arts, you know ,the dollar goes
U: a long way in attracting very high
U: caliber artists.
U: They come here and perform and
U: tour
U: And,
U: you know, when you are exposed to very
U: high quality art and you -- it's a
U: privilege. It's something that kids in
U: India don't get access to that.
U: They don't get -- I mean you have Spic
U: Macay and stuff but if you're an
U: average child growing up in Bihar or
U: some other place, you don't get that.
U: You know, we are exposed to that and it's
U: this -- it's kind of the
U: again a privilege.
I: And sure, and Silicon Valley has the dollar
I: power to be able to do that. U: Absolutely
U: and you know I'm happy to say that also
U: we do have in Silicon Valley people
U: living here
U: very very high caliber. Then they could
U: be touring on their own you know and
U: some of these people are
U: are working full-time in other
U: jobs regular jobs, but they're also able
U: to practice their art in, at a very high
U: level, be able to do both, you know. And
U: that to me is really fascinating. I: Yes, yes,
U: That's -- I think that is also
U: one
U: reason why this
U: why Silicon Valley becomes so unique
I: Yeah, this is true.
U: This is very true from the arts
U: perspective.
U: We've -- there is obviously a lot over
U: here. There's probably very few other
U: places that can claim
U: you know this kind of
U: rich culture and artistic practice.
U: The other thing that about Silicon
U: Valley that's different about Desis
U: and I'll tell you from my own experience
U: with my kids
U: is I think there comes a point when
U: there is enough of a population density
U: or a mass of us,
U: the people
U: start feeling very comfortable about
U: their identity.
U: You know, my daughter, I heard from
U: friends of mine that were growing up for
U: example in Mississippi or Kansas, you know,
U: in the '60s and '70s,
U: they did everything they could to
U: downplay their Indian-ness, right. And
U: because the only model available for
U: people was assimilation,
U: assimilation was the only way to
U: integrate. So they tried their best to
U: assimilate only to realize that, you know,
U: no matter how much you give up eating
U: curry and you anglicize your name, people
U: will still ask you where are you from,
U: right.
U: and that's the breakdown of that model
U: of melting pot. But you know what you --
U: when you are
U: a minority in your minuscule minority,
U: you -- that's what you do, you know. You just
U: kind of like try to melt in the
U: background and not stand out, yeah.
U: Here what I find among kid my kids and
U: others is they have pride
U: in in their identity. They are not afraid
U: like [to] wear the Indian clothes and bindi [dot on the forehead].
U: My daughter, when she gets ready to go
U: and perform her dance, she's strutting
U: around in public places with her costume.
U: She doesn't care, you know. She's proud of
U: it.
U: And when she starts speaking, people
U: are like amazed that this is like an
U: all-American kid,
U: you know. And
U: I think that pride comes
U: from two things: one is
U: success, when your community is
U: associated with success. I: Yes. U: And two is
U: when you're here in large enough numbers.
I: Yes
I: Yes, if you're, like you said, if you're
I: one --
I: you're the only Indian family in the
I: neighborhood, then you don't have --
U: Yeah, it's very hard, it's very hard, yeah.
I: It's almost parallel to say when
I: like you know growing up in Calcutta if
I: there was one South Indian family in an
I: entire Bengali neighborhood you
know it's almost [laugh] U: yeah yeah yeah. I: that's the
I: parallel. I: So now
I: my next question would be about how does
I: being Desi help you succeed in your work
I: in Silicon Valley?
U: So I, you know, I think I touched upon it.
U: Really, I think, for one thing
U: and again just to be clear I'm only
U: talking about people
U: who like myself, you know, with a
U: high-tech background and, you know, in
U: business school, so I'm not -- I cannot
U: speak, for example, for those who are maybe
U: you know cooks or
U: taxi drivers or others. Their experiences
U: are obviously very very different from mine.
U: I think
U: being -- Desi.
U: First of all, the language, right?
U: Second of all, you know, we come here
U: already with a lot going for us.
U: You know, people who come, people
U: always say, Oh, wow all the Indians I know
U: are so successful. But you're selecting
U: on the dependent variable. You came here
U: because you already had everything it
U: takes to succeed.
U: That is the hard truth that
U: people need to internalize, that
U: in 1965 when the Hart-Celler Act was
U: passed -- this is after, you know, basically
U: decades and decades of having laws on
U: the book that prevented immigration from,
U: you know, countries in Asia and Africa
U: and others, basically communities of
U: color -- the reason they passed that act
U: and then said you know we are going to
U: actively recruit people from places like
U: India that had this profile was because
U: we were in the middle of the Cold War
U: with the Soviet Union and losing on many
U: fronts. So there was a reason why we were
U: picked for that to come here and so of
U: course you know a lot of us we already
U: came here,
U: you know, with every ingredient
U: required for success.
U: And then
U: I think my success, a lot of it has to do
U: with the family support, the fact that I
U: have a husband who sees me as equal. We
U: met in college,
U: right, so
U: we
U: were completely on equal footing and
U: so I had that support. It also helped
U: that we very quickly after schooling
U: became financially fairly stable.
U: And then the important part is the
U: family, the culture, the cultural
U: practices that sets us apart, you know. I
U: went to business school at Stanford and
U: we graduated, there were 50 percent of our
U: graduating class was women.
U: And, you know, I don't have the stats to
U: to back this up but I can tell you
U: anecdotally when I went back to my
U: 10-year reunion and 20-year reunion, I
U: found that the people that have stepped
U: away from their career as far as women
U: were, were largely white
U: because they had to make the choice
U: of, you know, either being there for their
U: kids in their formative years -- they
U: didn't want to outsource that --
U: and they had -- even though they had the
U: money they just, you know, they realized
U: that, you know, this but they didn't have
U: it,
U: have that,
U: the parents, the culture of the parents
U: and the in-laws taking care of their
U: kids, right. Guess what? The first 10
U: years after my childbearing.
U: six months my parents were here, and six
U: months, my in-laws were there. And, yes, I had a nanny
U: because they were elderly, but it was, you
U: know, it just
U: freed me up,
U: right. So
U: you just talk about kind of every
U: advantage. So it's no surprise
U: that we are doing better than even the
U: whites
U: over here, right?
U: So I think it's a system and
U: I personally -- that's kind of my take. I
U: don't know, I don't have any data or
U: studies to back it up but you know. I: Sure,
I: yeah,
I: right.
I: And so now, when you look back at your
I: journey, how do you think Silicon Valley
I: influences your identity as a Desi?
U:
U: I think, you know, for me
U: having been here,
U: I do recognize that I, we live in a
U: bubble, you know. So
U: I'm constantly reminded that this is not
U: the real world. Even you, you know, you
U: drive 15 miles to Gilroy and all of a
U: sudden you realize it's a very different
U: world. I: Yes.
U: But
U: um
U: How does it influence my thinking? I
U: just feel like I have the best of both
U: worlds, you know. That I'm a very blessed
U: person, you know, I'm thankful to my roots,
U: my Desi roots, which I think are very
U: important. The other -- and Silicon
U: Valley I think kind of has helped me see
U: myself, expand my view of who my
U: people are,
U: right? I don't just see them as Desis. I
U: see everybody around us, you know, Mexican,
U: Chinese, whatever their origin is, I see
U: myself as being
U: kind of --
U: they're all my country people. So I mean
U: that part I think came from me being in
U: Silicon Valley but I don't have a very
U: good answer, I'm afraid. I: No, no, that's
I: great. And my, I guess my
I: last question to you, is how do you
I: foresee your future or your family's
I: future in Silicon Valley?
U: You know,
U: I do worry about it. I mean, it's the
U: only home my kids have known. But I'm
U: worried because I worry about how
U: sustainable --
U: First of all -- I'll take that back. One
U: thing that is lacking in Silicon Valley
U: right now is social cohesion.
U: And even though we are more diverse
U: now, we are less socially integrated and
U: that has to do with the same phenomenon
U: you're talking about: we have a large
U: enough Desi population so when they see
U: these new Desis come here,
U: they fit right into those silos, right?
U: There's very little need for them to
U: kind of move beyond it and be curious
U: and learn more about other cultures. They
U: transact for business and they may go
U: into their workplaces
U: and interact with other people, but
U: they're not going there and kind of
U: sharing their Indian-ness, right? They're
U: just going there, doing their business,
U: and then they come back and go into
U: their own kind of weekend events. And you
U: know whether it's temple or, you know,
U: whatever it is, and I worry that
U: that's happening in all the other
U: communities that are here in any
U: significant number. So it kind of has
U: caused this erosion in national identity
U: and that can result in all kinds of
U: other issues like, you know, you can you
U: can become very tribal in your views
U: about
U: politics or social issues. You already
U: see this, right? People are
U: putting their
U: the Indian-ness ahead of the
U: American-ness, so that's -- I worry about
U: that. So I feel like -- and that issue I
U: think is
U: further amplified, magnified because
U: forty percent of Santa Clara Valley is
U: identified -- is basically made up of
U: people that were born elsewhere.
U: A big chunk of them moved here as
U: adults so they don't have the history of
U: the land. They don't know what -- they don't
U: realize that,
U: you know, as recently as 50 years ago
U: this place was largely agricultural, had
U: orchards and canneries. And they don't
U: understand how the Vietnamese refugees
U: came here as boat people or the
U: Cambodians or others.
U: And all of that kind of lack of
U: shared history,
U: shared understanding of history and
U: combined with the lack of shared
U: experiences,
U: you know, when you think of what creates
U: social cohesion
U: is having
U: the lore of history told to you, right?
U: All of you kind of understanding the
U: same history
U: and then having kind of shared
U: experiences where we all get together
U: and experience things together. And then
U: the third part of it is having a shared
U: vision for the future and this is the
U: part that is really kind of
U: troublesome to me. Because I think
U: there's been surveys that find the big
U: chunk of the original kind of
U: inhabit -- not original I mean that would
U: be the
U: Ohlone -- but I think people who are
U: here for generations don't see
U: themselves staying here anymore because
U: their kids cannot afford the properties
U: here,
U: right. They're not benefiting from the
U: tech boom so they have, you know, parents
U: are retiring, moving to Florida, selling
U: their homes.
U: And so
U: we are losing a portion of the
U: population. And so when you have a flux
U: in population that is that significant,
U: you know, a 40 percent from elsewhere, another 40
U: percent don't see themselves here in
U: future,
U: then you and you don't have shared
U: history, you don't see a shared future,
U: you don't have shared experiences, then
U: you become a bunch of people, kind of
U: very dystopian, like we are hanging out
U: in this
U: pod, that we are enriching ourselves in --
U: You know, it's just a part of opportunity,
U: of making money
U: and nothing else.
U: And that has to change, you know, and I
U: kind of worry about that. And so it's
U: quite possible that, you know, my girls
U: are young,
U: and as they set out into this world
U: and they find,
U: depending on where they go,
U: you may choose at that point to kind of
U: move with them.
U: If we are not able to, in the
U: meanwhile develop
U: kind of a meaningful community
U: that feels right to us.
I: Right, well,
U: I haven't heard this perspective from
I: you know, from many people but
I: it's a very --
I: I think a very realistic. U: It is.
U: I mean, yeah, and I think like with most
U: of the arts and culture work that we do,
U: yes, people don't sense, have a sense
U: of urgency. And this is the other thing
U: I'm trying to articulate,
U: is
U: you know, belonging may be viewed on
U: Maslow's hierarchy as a third order,
U: right: food, clothing, shelter, you know,
U: belonging is not first order.
U: But I think there's a fallacy there. I
U: think in the short term on an individual
U: level belonging may not be a first order
U: need but as
U: a people
U: if you don't belong, you know, to a place
U: and it can't just be a virtual place, it
U: can't be
U: you know some abstract belonging to an
U: online kind of gamers group, right.
U: Belonging to a place, a physical place, is
U: very important.
U: And all kinds of
U: social diseases can take root if you
U: don't have that sense of belonging.
U: But
U: we have not yet found a way -- people
U: always talk about the ills in Silicon
U: Valley being housing, transportation,
U: gentrification,
U: you know, traffic -- all of these things.
U: Nobody ever talks about the fact that we
U: don't act like a community,
U: right? We're just here attached to this
U: host body, right?
U: And
U: that is a serious problem. That is a
U: problem because you know what's going to
U: happen in a very practical way is people
U: are not going to want to come here.
U: And now with Covid people have proven
U: that you don't need to physically be
U: here to get
U: jobs done,
U: right? So what is it that --
U: The sense of community comes from all
U: those things. And so
U: in my work, trying to kind of further the
U: sense of belonging through
U: you know dialogue and arts. It's very
U: challenging because we don't get the
U: funding we need, because it's not seen as
U: a first order need. But my point is if
U: you -- let's say you had a magic wand and
U: you
U: were able to wave that wand and you took
U: care of housing, you took care of traffic,
U: and you took care of all the other
U: things that you identified as pressing
U: needs, you would still not find this
U: place livable because you'd be missing
U: the key thing that makes it a community,
U: right? Because you've already priced out,
U: you know, your arts and you don't
U: value it. You just don't learn how to
U: live together. And
U: so I see that as a big fear which is why
U: I'm kind of, you know, redoubling my
U: efforts to strengthen,
U: to actually get people to recognize
U: that this is a problem,
U: right? When arts and culture is not just
U: a cherry on top of a cake, it needs to be
U: baked into the cake. I: Yes.
I: Correct, yes. Thank you, thanks a lot, Usha,
I: for this wonderful
I: interview, and the perspectives that
I: you have shared about being Desi
I: here. So I'm going to stop --
U: Yes, yes.
I: I want to stop the recording.