Interviewer (I) Okay so, thank you very much Ravisha
(I) for agreeing to do
(I) the interview.
(I) I'm Mantra Roy from the Dr. Martin Luther
(I) King Jr., Library at San Jose State
(I) University and we're interviewing you
(I) for
(I) "Desis of Silicon Valley Speak: An Oral
(I) History."
(I) Thank you for your time
(I) and
(I) I'll get started with the first question
(I) which is, please tell us about
(I) yourself and describe your journey up
(I) until now.
Ravisha Mathur (RM) Okay, thank you Mantra. So
(RM) my name is Ravisha Mathur
(RM) and I am an American-born
(RM) Indian American, so Indian American,
(RM) and I was born in Pennsylvania.
(RM) Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Grew up there. My
(RM) both my parents are immigrants. My dad
(RM) came here
(RM) from India, from Aligarh
(RM) to
(RM) to get an education, to get his PhD at Purdue
(RM) University. He went back after he
(RM) finished his PhD, he went back and got
(RM) married to my mother
(RM) and then moved to Pittsburgh,
(RM) Pennsylvania in December--in January
(RM) 1967.
(RM) Or 1968, 1968.
(RM) And so
(RM) I grew up there. I had all of my
(RM) schooling experiences,
(RM) you know, from Pre-K nursery school all
(RM) the way up until,
(RM) and including my bachelor's degree at
(RM) Penn State, I lived in Pennsylvania. And
(RM) then I, after completing my bachelor's
(RM) degree
(RM) in psychology, I went to Purdue
(RM) University
(RM) to get my master's and PhD in, again,
(RM) psychology.
(RM) Right after I graduated, actually I came
(RM) to San Jose State even before I had
(RM) finished my doctoral dissertation and
(RM) started a faculty position here in, I
(RM) think, 2002.
(I) Okay. (RM) And so I,
(RM) that's my educational journey
(RM) and that's pretty much where I
(RM) started, back in Pennsylvania.
(RM) Growing up there, yeah, in the 70s and 80s. (I) Okay
(I) so, that means your, your experience
(I) with Silicon Valley started in 2002 when
(I) you took up a faculty position at San
(I) Jose State. (RM) Correct.
(I) So...
(RM) Slightly before, because my sister, my
(RM) older sister and her husband were living
(RM) here.
(RM) So I'd been here several times
(RM) to visit them when they were, you know,
(RM) they were married
(RM) in 1997, so I've been here
(RM) several times (I) Yes. (RM) throughout that
(RM) since the late 90s to now, yeah.
(I) Okay. So you have seen Silicon Valley
(I) change
(I) quite a bit.
(RM) Yes.
(RM) I've seen some things stay exactly the
(RM) same and some things obviously change. I
(RM) think, so when you think about like the
(RM) real estate market that has fluctuated
(RM) here in my time, because we were here
(RM) during the big recession of 2008. We
(RM) were here at the downfall of the
(RM) startups in 2002, that's when we moved here
(RM) actually.
(RM) And then in 2008, when the big recession
(RM) hit we were living here
(RM) as well, so we've seen fluctuations in
(RM) the economy here. (I) Right. (RM) So we've seen,
(RM) we've always seen that like tremendous
(RM) proliferation of the tech industry
(RM) in
(RM) this area,
(RM) which has been
(RM) very interesting to kind of see the
(RM) maintenance and the continuation of that
(RM) idea of "Silicon Valley," (I) Right.
(RM) tech center of the world, yeah. (I) Yes.
(I) So, and that kind of said it, and you're already
(I) talking about it, so what does Silicon
(I) Valley mean to you?
(RM) What does Silicon Valley mean to me? So,
(RM) it does mean in fact that we are the
(RM) tech center,
(RM) but over the last 17,
(RM) 18 years, what I've also began to realize
(RM) is that is just
(RM) really one sector
(RM) and what makes our Valley successful are
(RM) actually a lot of the people who are in
(RM) the surrounding industry.
(RM) And that includes people from my own
(RM) field of education, so when you look at
(RM) our own College of Education here at San
(RM) Jose State, you know, it's our teachers
(RM) who go out
(RM) and staff the entire community
(RM) of educators. And so, I think of it now, and
(RM) you know, when I came here I had this
(RM) very
(RM) ...
(RM) mono
(RM) perspective of like "this is what Silicon
(RM) Valley is," it's very focused on tech.
(RM) But now, over the years, I've really seen
(RM) a lot of
(RM) the
(RM) different sectors of people who live
(RM) here. So it's become a much more
(RM) differentiated place than when I first
(RM) came here.
(I) Right.
(I) So,
(I) now that you identified yourself as you
(I) know,
(I) a child of immigrants who came from
(I) India,
(I) do you identify yourself as a Desi of
(I) Silicon Valley and what would that mean
(I) to you?
(RM) I identify myself as a Desi but not
(RM) necessarily of Silicon Valley, because I
(RM) wasn't born here. (I) Right. (RM) My formative
(RM) years were not here in Silicon Valley.
(RM) So I do identify myself as a Desi but
(RM) not necessarily of this area.
(RM) And
(RM) it does actually make a difference,
(RM) because when I talk to
(RM) ...
(RM) to people who grew up here,
(RM) they have had a very, they have had some
(RM) very different experiences. I grew up in
(RM) Pittsburgh.
(RM) I grew up there in the, my formative
(RM) years were in the 70s and 80s. I was the
(RM) only Indian person in my neighborhood, my
(RM) family was the only Indian family in my
(RM) neighborhood. I was the only, we were
(RM) the only Indian family in my elementary
(RM) school. In high school where there was a
(RM) class of 2,000,
(RM) there were only about four or five
(RM) Indians in that class of 2,000. One of
(RM) them was my sister. (I) Wow.
(RM) Yeah so, you know, that experience is very
(RM) isolating. I think
(RM) the majority of my cousins and majority
(RM) of my family are still back in India.
(RM) It's very
(RM) different, it was a very different
(RM) experience I think on the other side of
(RM) the country.
(RM) Even our temple was like a house, somebody's
(RM) house
(RM) for a long time
(RM) and then we were able to like do a lot
(RM) of fundraising and actually build a
(RM) temple.
(RM) And so when I think about like
(RM) where, you know, my formative experience
(RM) is, it's not here in the Silicon Valley.
(RM) Silicon Valley seems like people had a
(RM) much more accepting experience, they'd
(RM) seen a lot of Indians
(RM) in their own communities and it was much
(RM) more connected, even back in the 70s and
(RM) 80s.
(RM) So,
(RM) you know, back in Pennsylvania when my
(RM) dad would see somebody who was Indian,
(RM) we'd be driving down the road, my dad
(RM) would like pull over
(RM) and like say oh, you're Indian, like where
(RM) are you from? There was a lot of,
(RM) a lot of like trying to build community
(RM) in my formative years. Whereas there seemed
(RM) to be a little bit more, when I talked to
(RM) people who grew up here, they have more
(RM) of a community.
(I) Yeah.
(RM) Other, other Indians in particular. (I) Right.
(I) Is it because of the tech sector's
(I) presence which kind of
(I) actively either recruited or was a
(I) welcoming space for engineers from India?
(RM) Yeah, I think that's exactly it, Mantra.
(RM) I think because we are,
(RM) I mean here in Silicon Valley, it is a
(RM) stronger tech presence
(RM) and that stronger tech presence
(RM) where you have
(RM) those
(RM) companies that are actively
(RM) recognizing the talent that is already
(RM) located in India,
(RM) and bringing it over here to the United
(RM) States in one way or another. So, my dad
(RM) worked for Westinghouse and then
(RM) eventually worked for the U.S. government
(RM) in the Department of Energy
(RM) and, you know, he was hired because of
(RM) where he went for his
(RM) degree, and you know, recommendations but
(RM) it wasn't necessarily like a tech,
(RM) like an Indian hub, like he wasn't being
(RM) hired
(RM) because it was a knowledgeable thing.
(I) Yeah.
(RM) Like okay, you're the only Indian
(RM) person who's working here.
(RM) Westinghouse itself did begin to hire a
(RM) lot of Indians and that's how he, that
(RM) was one place where we started to build
(RM) some community there, so my dad began to
(RM) connect with others there.
(I) Right.
(RM) But that was like the biggest industry
(RM) there in the 70s, because that was the
(RM) downfall of the steel industry
(RM) in Pittsburgh
(RM) and the rise of other kinds of industry.
(RM) So we have a lot of chemical companies
(RM) in Pittsburgh,
(RM) but not the tech that you have here.
(I) Right.
(RM) And you have India recognized as a tech
(I) Yes. (RM) competitor and so there's a lot of
(RM) recruitment
(RM) out of Asia in particular, but India
(RM) specifically.
(RM) Yeah, so it does look like a very different
(RM) perspective.
(RM) And I was talking to one of my Indian
(RM) students who was,
(RM) was from Livermore
(RM) and she was talking about Livermore Labs,
(RM) and she's like oh yeah, there's a big
(RM) Indian community up there, it's always
(RM) been there because of Livermore Labs.
(RM) Right? Because of that industry (I) Right. (RM) and I don't
(RM) think we had that as well in Pittsburgh,
(RM) for a long time.
(I) Right. So, do you actively
(RM) engage with the Desi community here in
(RM) any capacity,
(RM) or I mean not only of
(RM) your personal interest but also out of,
(RM) you know, maybe your work takes you there
(RM) or your other, you know, your lifestyle
(RM) or your friends, family whatever,
(RM) do you engage with it yourself?
(RM) So, you should know that yes, I do, but a lot
(RM) of that has to do with the fact that
(RM) both of my sisters live here, (I) Uh-huh.
(RM) and my brother-in-law lives here as well.
(RM) So that means that there are 10 people
(RM) all the time
(I) Yes. (RM) who are celebrating, we have family
(RM) celebration, like we have a family
(RM) celebration today.
(RM) Somebody's birthday, somebody's something
(RM) going on all the time. (I) Right. (RM) And then
(RM) I'm not an active member of the temple
(RM) but I go to temple somewhat regularly,
(RM) and so I do interact with people there.
(RM) And then
(RM) I have connected with, at my job,
(RM) connected with those who are
(RM) who identify as Indian or Desi.
(RM) And so we've had like a few happy hours
(RM) and other things like that.
(I) Okay. (RM) But that took a long time, I think
(RM) at the beginning when I came to San Jose
(RM) State I was a new faculty person,
(RM) and I was also fairly newly married at
(RM) the time.
(RM) I was not really that like looking for a
(RM) lot of people
(I) Sure.
(RM) to hang out with.
(RM) And then, then I had my child and my
(RM) whole social life just was destroyed.
(RM) Not to be negative, but (I) No no no, it
(I) changes, yes. (RM) It changes dramatically, but
(RM) we still like do a lot of, we do
(RM) do a lot of celebrations usually like to
(RM) my religion.
(RM) Like Diwali, yesterday was "Ganesh and Lakshmi/Laxmi"
(I) Yes. (RM) like those kinds of things we
(RM) celebrate.
(I) So... (RM) But I have not gotten connected as
(RM) I should, as I feel I should be.
(I) Okay.
(RM) And I feel like my academic life
(RM) prevents that from happening.
(I) Yeah.
(RM) Because I'm, so we're in the tech center,
(RM) but everyone else works from January
(RM) to December, (I) Yes. (RM) and in the
(RM) academic world we work from August to
(RM) June, (I) Yes. (RM) and then we, then we have a
(RM) space to breathe for two months, (I) Yeah.
(RM) but some of that is just recovery. (I) Yes,
(I) and prepping for the next year. (RM) Prepping
(RM) for the next fall, right? And so I think
(RM) it's a very different life, an academic
(RM) life. (I) Yes, yes. The rhythm is very
(I) different. (RM) It's very different and then
(RM) even your days are very different. (I) Yes.
(RM) Like a lot of people I
(RM) know who work in tech, yes they have
(RM) responsibilities, but most of them when
(RM) they come home at 6 or 7 o'clock
(RM) at night, they're not continuing.
(RM) They kind of work a very long day but
(RM) then they come home and then they just
(RM) like watch TV or they hang out or,
(RM) whereas like a lot of academics, their
(RM) days are spent differently (I) Yes. (RM) and they
(RM) come home and they're grading, like
(RM) they're still doing work.
(I) Of course.
(RM) They're preparing for the next day's
(RM) lecture or something like that. (I) Yes, and
(I) sometimes when we even watch a movie
(I) you know, we suddenly think of
(I) a research project or something that one
(I) has read, we observe something in that TV
(I) series and it gets our mind working,
(I) which probably doesn't happen with
(I) other industries.
(RM) Unless you work in R&D (Research & Development).
(I) Yeah,
(I) true.
(RM) I'm sure that happens in R&D, but
(RM) like my sister works in a, at a large
(RM) tech company, well-known, and she works
(RM) in manufacturing. So she's not thinking
(RM) of R&D,
(RM) she's thinking about like how to manage
(RM) the manufacturing process.
(RM) My younger sister does that, yeah.
(I) Okay, right. So one thing that I have
(I) noticed, because I've been here like
(I) living in Silicon Valley since about
(I) about one and a half years now, and
(I) you know, like you, I have a sister who
(I) has been here for almost 10, 11 years.
(I) So I've visited
(I) many times before, but this is the first
(I) time I'm living here. So one thing that I
(I) noticed when coming, after moving here
(I) and also during my past visits, was just
(I) the shure, A) the...
(I) the population density, you know, of Desis
(I) in general. So the footprint and then
(I) the food and then the music classes,
(I) and everybody's teaching this Raga
(I) school of music, somebody, I mean almost
(I) every Indian kid is doing something
(I) related to music (RM) Right. (I) in either
(I) Carnatic or Hindustani, or they're taking
(I) Bharatnatyam classes, or something of the
(I) other, right?
(I) And it happens in many cities today,
(I) and I've seen that in other cities as
(I) well.
(I) But it seems like the...level
(I) at which it happens here
(I) is almost, I mean it's not possible
(I) in any other city. Seattle comes a
(I) little close
(I) to what happens here. Why, why is Desi
(I) culture so vibrant here? I mean
(I) engineering workspace I understand,
(I) but the rest of it? (RM) I think a lot of it
(RM) has to do with population density,
(RM) but a lot of it also has to be, is the
(RM) idea that we're validated for our
(RM) cultural identity.
(RM) You know, I think like when I grew up, no
(RM) one was saying like how great,
(RM) you're Indian.
(RM) Nobody was saying like
(RM) how do you celebrate your, nobody was
(RM) asking me, do you celebrate your culture?
(RM) Nobody would ask me, what are your
(RM) religious holidays?
(RM) But even asking it wasn't part of
(RM) our daily conversation in our American
(RM) world. (I) Right, right.
(RM) And so
(RM) but
(RM) here, I've had a lot of people who've
(RM) said like oh, what is your, what does your
(RM) name mean or what's, what holidays are
(RM) you celebrating?
(RM) People are more interested in and so that means that
(RM) people feel more comfortable reaching
(RM) out to other
(RM) Indians
(RM) in particular to really celebrate and
(RM) create those joint spaces.
(RM) And you know, again, when I was growing up
(RM) and you're talking about like dance
(RM) class or music class,
(RM) that usually happened through the like
(RM) an organized temple activity,
(RM) and like I said, we did not have a
(RM) formalized temple. We had, it was
(RM) somebody's house for a long time and
(RM) the pandit-ji (teacher in Hindi) lived at that house
(RM) the back room.
(RM) And then once the temple was built, we
(RM) have two temples, two major temples. We
(RM) actually have a few temples, but two
(RM) major temples in India--I mean, in
(RM) Pittsburgh.
(RM) And...
(RM) once the temple was built up, that's
(RM) where you begin to see a lot of like
(RM) that's where the dance class started.
(RM) And then now with the access of everything
(RM) online, (I) Yes. (RM) it's easy to find those
(RM) spaces, right? (I) Yes.
(RM) Because everything back then was word of
(RM) mouth, so if you were a new Indian moving
(RM) into town, you were going into a company
(RM) that had no Indians
(RM) or very few Indians, like how did you
(RM) know like how to sign your daughter up
(RM) for
(RM) dance class or where?
(RM) Right, so I feel like
(RM) here, because there are there's a huge
(RM) number of Indians, a huge number of Desi
(RM) population
(RM) and those are people who are looking for
(RM) connection also.
(I) Yes.
(RM) Yeah, right, so I think that's like a
(RM) natural community for many people.
(RM) But you don't have to say,
(RM) like when I tell people I have to I call
(RM) my parents every single day,
(RM) they're just shocked, right?
(RM) If I say I call my parents, and if I don't call
(RM) then they call me,
(RM) and if you can't get a hold of me for
(RM) one reason or another, then they call my
(RM) husband saying, where's Ravisha? (I) Yes, yes.
(RM) You don't
(RM) you know, and when I tell people this
(RM) they're just like, oh how intrusive and
(RM) I'm like no, it's just part of life.
(RM) So I think it's those kinds of things,
(RM) there's a shared language of shared
(RM) understanding
(RM) that makes it so much more
(RM) comfortable
(RM) when you're with other Desis, because
(RM) you don't have to explain
(RM) a lot of things. You don't have to say
(RM) like
(RM) you don't have to explain so many things,
(RM) so many parts of the hidden,
(RM) the hidden parts of our language or
(RM) hidden parts of our experience.
(I) Right.
(RM) Right, or when you
(RM) even you talk about like when someone
(RM) asks the question where are you from and
(RM) I say that to another Desi, they're
(RM) like oh, I hate that question too.
(I) Yes, yes. (RM) So, you know, I don't have to
(RM) explain those kinds of things. (I) Right,
(I) right. So...
(RM) But I also think that my experiences may
(RM) be different because I do not, I am not
(RM) married to somebody who's Indian. (I) Okay.
(RM) My husband is Caucasian/White.
(RM) His ethnicity is
(RM) Eastern European and Italian, and so
(RM) his experience,
(RM) I mean I think in some ways
(RM) if I was married to somebody who was
(RM) Indian or you know Desi themselves
(RM) then it would be very different.
(I) Sure.
(I) Sure, yeah.
(I) Yeah,
(I) right.
(I) So do you think
(I) your, your being Desi or maybe
(I) living in this place and given your, your
(I) profession, do you think it informs
(I) your work in any way?
(RM) Yeah it does actually.
(I) How would you say that? (RM) In my role as the
(RM) senate chair.
(RM) Well, I would just say in any leadership
(RM) role I've had because I feel like,
(RM) you know when, I don't know how to explain
(RM) this. Maybe I'll just try. (I) Yeah. (RM) Sometimes
(RM) like when you meet somebody as an
(RM) Indian person you try to,
(RM) especially as a woman,
(RM) you are encouraged to like make sure
(RM) that the other person's needs are met. So
(RM) somebody comes to your house,
(RM) you say would you like some chai, would
(RM) you like, can I get you a snack or, you
(RM) know,
(RM) you're trying to meet the other person's
(RM) needs.
(RM) And I think that does inform like when I
(RM) when I'm talking with other leaders on
(RM) campus and I, I'm trying to navigate
(RM) something, I'm trying to also very
(RM) carefully make sure that I'm attending
(RM) to or trying to listen for what their
(RM) needs are, so that I can be responsive to
(RM) it.
(I) Right.
(RM) And I feel like it also just might be
(RM) that, you know, trying to please others
(RM) personality
(RM) that
(RM) that does inform how I operate.
(RM) I also don't,
(RM) I, that also makes me operate away
(RM) from a transactional model, I don't
(RM) believe in that transactional model.
(RM) So I work on a more relational,
(RM) transformational
(RM) way
(RM) and trying to say like how, like even
(RM) with my Zoom backgrounds I'm trying to
(RM) figure out how can I educate people
(RM) about who I am and
(RM) how can I build a relationship with
(RM) people.
(RM) And not just so that I can get XYZ
(RM) down, but so that I can relate to the
(RM) person as a human being.
(I) Yes. (RM) Yeah.
(I) Yes, no I think that is very important,
(I) yeah. (RM) And I'm not trying to be, I'm
(RM) just trying to say that I feel like when
(RM) I meet Indians,
(RM) whether it's here in the United States
(RM) or whether it's in India, you know, we're
(RM) always trying to accommodate for each
(RM) other. (I) Yes. (RM) Like so if you say let's, where
(RM) do you want to go for dinner, like oh
(RM) why don't you choose? Like, you know. (I) Yeah.
(RM) Like, oh no how about you choose?
(RM) Or like even paying for the bill, no
(RM) I'll you know, you know I'll pay for it,
(RM) not you.
(I) Yes. (RM) We're always trying to accommodate
(RM) for the other person.
(I) Yes.
(I) I think that's why the joint family
(I) structure has worked in India.
(RM) Uh-huh, right.
(I) Because we really do take multiple
(I) perspectives constantly, we constantly
(I) juggle them.
(RM) Right. (I) That is true, yeah. Wow. (RM) Right. (I) Yeah, that
(I) that's very interesting way of
(I) thinking how it informs your work, yeah.
(I) That's great. So
(I) does the Silicon Valley
(I) influence your identity as a Desi?
(RM) I think it does because I re-- you
(RM) know I've lived mostly in places where
(RM) the majority was not,
(RM) where the majority has been white.
(RM) And this is, and I'm also in an inter-
(RM) racial, interethnic relationship and I've
(RM) been in both Pennsylvania, in Indiana
(RM) where I went to school, and here.
(RM) And it does, it makes me feel a
(RM) little bit more comfortable in my
(RM) identity because there are other Desis
(RM) around me.
(RM) So when we,
(RM) and I feel that and because we're in
(RM) this industry where, we're in a place
(RM) where
(RM) a lot of the industry supports Desi
(RM) people,
(RM) you know, it is there's a comfort level
(RM) you know,
(RM) to...even go out to dinner, to go out to
(RM) the mall,
(RM) because we're in a place where it is
(RM) that diversity is encouraged, and we know
(RM) that companies are not hiring people
(RM) just based on
(RM) the fact that they're white.
(I) Yeah.
(RM) And so that makes it, it makes it easier
(RM) I think for us to navigate those.
(RM) And then sometimes it gives you strength
(RM) in terms of negotiating, so like I've
(RM) seen with both my sisters
(RM) who are, you know, both full Indian like
(RM) myself,
(RM) they're able to navigate some spaces
(RM) because they are in fact Indian.
(I) Right.
(I) I've heard this from one of my
(I) interviewees who, you know, like both
(I) husband and wife, they're both like in
(I) the high tech sector
(I) and they've always lived
(I) here. Like, you know, they came here around
(I) 2002 or four from India and then they
(I) have lived here all their life, like
(I) their life in America has always been
(I) Silicon Valley, and they're raising
(I) children, and both of them said that
(I) I think we have, we have missed out
(I) on the American experience because we
(I) live in Silicon Valley.
(RM) Right.
(I) Because of the, of the Desi presence
(I) here.
(RM) Exactly.
(RM) So just to bring it, I mean I don't mean
(RM) to mention politics, (I) Sure. (RM) but I'm going
(RM) to mention politics and talk about
(RM) you know, why would people vote for the
(RM) president that they voted or why is
(RM) there a chance that the president is
(RM) going to continue to be in office,
(RM) because when you live here, you live in a
(RM) little bit of a bubble of safety.
(RM) And like, you know, common thought about
(RM) the importance of identity.
(RM) And everywhere else, not everywhere else
(RM) but many places else, and if you've lived
(RM) in those places, you recognize
(RM) you can, you recognize and have
(RM) experiences not just with
(RM) microaggression, but with overt racism,
(RM) is a common part of your experience. And
(RM) so
(RM) you know, it's a little bit different
(RM) when you just are here in Silicon Valley
(RM) the whole time. (I) Yes. (RM) And I think when
(RM) they say like oh, it's a bubble, it is
(RM) sometimes a bubble because of the fact
(RM) that
(RM) you
(RM) you know,
(RM) you have it, you do have racism here,
(RM) you do have
(RM) particularly a lot of microaggression,
(RM) but you have overt racism where people
(RM) feel safe to walk up to you on the
(RM) street and say things to you in certain
(RM) parts of the country. (I) Yeah.
(RM) And you have to be very concerned
(RM) about your physical safety all the time.
(I) Right,
(I) yeah.
(RM) So Silicon Valley gives you that safety
(RM) I think.
(RM) And because we are, we are not just at
(RM) the, in terms of like the worker bees
(RM) we're in management.
(RM) That gives you
(RM) stronger,
(RM) it gives you power actually. We're in, we
(RM) have a lot of
(RM) power in the Valley.
(I) Yeah. (RM) That power...
(RM) gives you a lot. It just gives you a
(RM) lot of power.
(I) Yeah.
(I) Right. So this is my last formal
(I) question, but you know we can
(I) talk about other things as well. So how
(I) do you foresee your future or your
(I) family's future in Silicon Valley, like
(I) given the context of Desi identity
(I) and
(I) how the Desi identity is probably, you
(I) know, I think it's it evolves constantly
(I) right?
(I) How do you see that
(I) in the future?
(RM) So I think that we will always have strong
(RM) presence, the Desi community
(RM) will always have strong presence in
(RM) Silicon Valley. I mean when you look at
(RM) like CEO of Google, (I) Yeah.
(RM) we will have strong presence in the
(RM) Valley
(RM) and I think that's a good thing. I
(RM) think, not just our communities, but other
(RM) communities of color having strong
(RM) presence
(RM) will be very important moving forward.
(RM) I think
(RM) you know, having a child in Silicon
(RM) Valley is a very interesting thing
(RM) because I feel like my son walks
(RM) around like himself because he's never
(RM) had to experience
(RM) real overt racism,
(RM) that he has a sense of safety and he
(RM) will be able to grow up more secure in
(RM) his own identity.
(RM) I think when you don't grow up here
(RM) and you don't have a lot of role models
(RM) in leadership,
(RM) that your perspective is a little
(RM) different. I think you feel like you
(RM) might be always struggling or you always
(RM) have some doubt
(RM) in who you are
(RM) because you get those messages more
(RM) constantly
(RM) from your settings. Like if you're celebrating,
(RM) like if you told your teacher here I'm
(RM) celebrating Diwali,
(RM) that teacher will be like oh, great
(RM) that's a wonderful holiday blah blah
(RM) blah.
(RM) If you're in West Lafayette, Indiana
(RM) where I lived before and you say my
(RM) family is celebrating Diwali,
(RM) they they might be understanding but
(RM) they like, you know,
(RM) supportive but they don't have a lot of
(RM) understanding of what that actually
(RM) means.
(RM) Or
(RM) you know, like when I have to go to India
(RM) for one month,
(RM) they're like one month? Like are you, your
(RM) child will be missing school and; but you
(RM) don't have that kind of experience here.
(I) Right,
(I) right.
(RM) Right, so I think
(RM) my, in terms of my own personal future,
(RM) the Silicon Valley for people I, I am not
(RM) in the tech industry, so I mean (I) Yeah.
(RM) it's a very expensive place to be and to retire.
(I) Yes. (RM) So I even though I love the fact
(RM) that it's so diverse,
(RM) there might be other places in the
(RM) country that I move to once I retire.
(I) Yes. (RM) And that's something, but this
(RM) isn't true just for Desi family, I've
(RM) talked to a lot of people (I) Yes.
(RM) who work in education
(RM) and they are saying like when they
(RM) retire, they may not be able to afford
(RM) to live here.
(I) Yeah. (RM) So they make that, we already see a
(RM) shift
(RM) with people moving out of the Bay Area
(RM) due to this COVID
(RM) and being able to work from anywhere. (I) Right,
(I) right. Yeah.
(I) Yeah, we have some I mean,
(I) I have, I know people in the library who
(I) are doing that. Like you know they're
(I) very young so they move back to
(I) their parents' house actually in a
(I) different state, (RM) Right.
(I) because they don't want to,
(I) they can't afford rent like this here so
(I) yeah. (RM) And also there's the other issue since I'm
(RM) in an
(RM) interracial, interethnic
(RM) partnership/marriage,
(RM) that even when I go to the temple,
(RM) not a lot of people
(RM) are running up to me
(RM) to meet and say like oh, let's hang out.
(RM) And so
(RM) many of the people that I spend time
(RM) with because I'm in
(RM) this relationship are interracial. (I) Sure.
(RM) And so
(RM) like, I have friends I, most of my
(RM) close friends are
(RM) in interracial relationships or
(RM) interethnic relationships.
(RM) Because
(RM) and this is, this might be the ugly side but
(RM) you know,
(RM) if you're in a, you know, two Indian
(RM) family, they're not as acce-- I feel that
(RM) they don't, I don't feel as much as
(RM) acceptance. (I) Yes. (RM) Like,
(RM) my husband doesn't know exactly what it
(RM) means and he,
(RM) even though we've been together for 30
(RM) years,
(RM) it has a lot of experience, it doesn't
(RM) mean he grew up, he grew up with that.
(I) Correct.
(RM) Right. (I) Yes.
(RM) You know, it's just a very different
(RM) perspective. (I) Oh no, I completely hear that.
(I) Yes absolutely. I mean
(I) I'm from India, my husband is also
(I) from India, but we don't come from the
(I) same community for example.
(I) Like, you know, I'm Bengali he is not.
(I) He's from Hyderabad and
(I) I myself have faced so many things from
(I) the Bengali community in different
(I) cities. (RM) Yeah.
(I) You know it's like oh okay, whatever.
(RM) I mean so I think that's like the hidden
(RM) part that we don't even talk about in
(RM) the Desi community.
(RM) And we don't, we, it's not as noticeable
(RM) here I have to say (I) Yes, that's true.
(RM) in the Bay Area,
(RM) but there's still differences there.
(RM) And so
(RM) it's just an interesting experience
(RM) to be in that setting. My younger sister,
(RM) she's not married,
(RM) and so
(RM) and she's, you know getting, she's in her
(RM) early 40s
(RM) not getting married so that's the
(RM) problem all right already right there.
(I) Yeah, that's another yeah.
(RM) But you know, I keep saying to, I keep thinking in
(RM) the back of my head,
(RM) that wow, you know, if she marries somebody
(RM) hopefully that person's Indian,
(RM) because that person won't have to
(RM) learn all of the things that I've had, my
(RM) husband has had to learn like,
(RM) just you know,
(RM) the many many things that you have to
(RM) learn when you're married to somebody
(RM) who's Indian.
(I) Yeah.
(RM) Yeah.
(RM) And then how to work with Indian parents
(RM) and how to
(RM) do things that seem to be illogical and
(RM) you know, learning how to
(RM) operate your whole day around "kana" (food in Hindi) like when you eat.
(RM) And so, you know and my brother-in-law,
(RM) my husband's brother, came with us in
(RM) December, he came to my parents' house. He
(RM) normally doesn't come to my parents'
(RM) house at that time of the year.
(RM) And then he was just like,
(RM) does our whole day have to center around
(RM) food?
(RM) Like I'm sorry, yes it does. (I) Yeah, it does.
(RM) It does, I'm sorry. So, but when you
(RM) marry a person who's Indian and you say that they
(RM) understand, oh yeah of course.
(RM) It does, it centers around like
(RM) you've had lunch now but now you must be
(RM) getting hungry it's two o'clock. It's
(RM) time for chai and some appetizer.
(RM) Right? And so
(RM) you know, it's just a very different,
(RM) it's just a very different family
(RM) dynamic too. (I) Yeah.
(RM) And so
(RM) I keep saying like I hope you, you know,
(RM) we live in Silicon Valley you should be
(RM) able to meet somebody who's Indian.
(RM) And so
(RM) yeah, and I feel like that would make it
(RM) easier for her.
(I) Yeah, yeah.
(I) Yeah, I think I personally also, I mean in
(I) this short time too, I think I've felt
(I) that a couple of times that,
(I) it's great to feel that comfort
(I) because, you know, see or like you
(I) said, you don't have to explain so many
(I) things.
(I) But on the other hand, you can see their
(I) expectations,
(RM) Yeah.
(I) which you can, you can sense even if it's
(RM) not being articulated in front of you.
(RM) Right, right. (I) Right? So yeah.
(RM) And then, you know, being raised by
(RM) Indian parents you just know.
(RM) So sometimes people would say to have
(RM) said to me like, why don't you just not
(RM) do that like, you know, you need to be
(RM) independent of your parents,
(RM) and it's just not in my
(RM) identity, like I can't even think about that
(RM) because I'm not, that's not my experience.
(RM) We are very, Indians are very
(RM) interdependent with their families. (I) Yes.
(RM) And your identities are tied up with
(RM) your family identity, you know, and being
(RM) respectful to your parents and so
(RM) I've never, it's very
(RM) unusual experience to be in a room
(RM) with people who haven't been
(RM) raised by Indian parents and then they're
(RM) saying things like the importance of
(RM) being, you know, independent or
(RM) you know, when I was telling one of my
(RM) colleagues like oh, my mom really wants
(RM) me to
(RM) do this thing with my son
(RM) and so I'm trying to look for a place
(RM) where I can do this and they're like, why
(RM) don't you just not do it?
(I) Yeah. (RM) I'm like no no,
(RM) I think you don't understand you have to do it.
(RM) And when you talk to somebody who's
(RM) Indian they definitely, they understand
(RM) that point immediately. (I) Yes, yes.
(RM) And so I think that is about I mean (I) Yeah.
(RM) the density of Desi here in the
(RM) Silicon Valley
(RM) is very
(RM) critical for feeling like you can
(RM) actually express your identity more
(RM) seriously.
(I) Yeah, that's true. Correct, correct. Yeah, I
(I) agree with that. Yeah and I think that's
(I) what makes Silicon Valley such an
(I) interesting place to study
(I) as well.
(I) And yeah, right. Is there, is there
(I) anything else you would like to say
(I) about the Desi
(I) identity or community or, and even your
(I) your self-reflection about, you know,
(I) being who you are in terms of your
(I) profession, personal life.
(RM) So I think there's two things for sure,
(RM) if it could be translated somewhere,
(RM) is that when you are in a like inter-
(RM) inter-Desi family, I don't know what we are.
(RM) Interethnic family,
(RM) multiethnic family.
(RM) One of the challenges I'm so worried
(RM) about for my own son
(RM) is retaining that part of his Indian
(RM) identity,
(RM) and becoming way too Americanized. I
(RM) don't know if that's a, it's not
(RM) politically correct but I want him to
(RM) retain
(I) Yeah. (RM) that sense of identity. I want him
(RM) to understand the struggles that his
(RM) grandparents had
(RM) moving into that community where they
(RM) were the only Indians.
(RM) They were not trusted because they were
(RM) Indian.
(RM) I want him to understand that and really
(RM) have,
(RM) make that part of his identity. I want
(RM) him to speak the language well.
(RM) Right, and I think,
(RM) I mean the actual language Hindi
(RM) is on him to learn the language and have
(RM) that as part of his identity.
(RM) And so that is something I'm, I worry
(RM) about most as the parent of this child.
(RM) And then the second thing,
(RM) that's in my, you know, my personal
(RM) sphere, but in my professional sphere
(RM) I've recognized that
(RM) as I've found opportunities to use my
(RM) voice through leadership experience,
(RM) that I've been able to
(RM) feel more comfortable and have strength
(RM) in expressing that identity and calling out
(RM) places where we need to think about
(RM) diversity and think about equity.
(RM) I'm in a,
(RM) I think I'm what, in a somewhat powerful
(RM) position
(RM) on the campuses, the chair of the senate
(RM) right now.
(RM) But I do think that that is, that gives
(RM) you know, as I've moved up in my
(RM) leadership, starting in 2002 where I was
(RM) just
(RM) a
(RM) assistant professor with no power at all
(I) Yes. (RM) to now,
(RM) the more leadership I've seen, the
(RM) more it's given me opportunity to kind
(RM) of say, why don't we do this or why don't
(RM) we do that? Or I have been able to
(RM) connect
(RM) and do other work
(RM) that really empowers other women or
(RM) empowers
(RM) Desi women or empowers women who
(RM) have inner, other intersectionalities.
(RM) And I think that is the, that is the
(RM) value of leadership.
(RM) That's the power of leadership, right?
(RM) That when you have somebody who really
(RM) values it
(RM) and it allows me to express my
(RM) identity, and it allows me to actually
(RM) say in meetings, because I grew up Indian.
(RM) Whereas most people try to not, like
(RM) suppress their ethnic identity or don't
(RM) even refer to it, I actually try to make
(RM) it as more central in (I) That's great, yeah.
(RM) I try, I'm not always successful.
(RM) It also puts an additional pressure
(RM) though that I am representing a whole identity.
(I) Yes.
(RM) I do so and so I feel like, you know, but
(RM) I just want to make sure that that's
(RM) also a piece
(RM) somewhere in this history that
(RM) like by
(RM) looking for people who have that
(RM) diversity, in this case talking about
(RM) those who have Desi identity,
(RM) we're actually empowering those people
(RM) to use their identities to make better
(RM) decisions or to connect people
(RM) better.
(I) Right.
(I) Yeah. This is, this is great. Thank you so
(I) much Ravisha for your time. (RM) Oh, you're welcome.
(I) Yeah. Thanks a lot. I'll stop recording
(I) now, okay.