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Rothman, Lorraine (audio interview #2 of 2)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This second, long interview recorded with Lorraine Rothman was conducted for a women's oral history course at CSULB. NOTE: In a paper written for a history class by the interviewer, "Taking Back Women's Medicine: The Feminist Health Movement in Los Angeles," she cites an interview of 13 April 1990. It is not clear if this is yet another interview session she conducted with Rothman that was not deposited, or if this second interview is mistakenly dated 31st of March. 3/31/1990
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- *** File: fhlrothman3.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-16:20)... Rothman met her husband, Al Rothman, at the temple. This was one of the few times she returned to the temple, though it was not for religious reasons. Her sister belonged to a youth group at the temple and her mother asked Rothman to help set up for a carnival. When she got there, she met a guy making a sign; she told him she did not like the sign and he told her to complete it. She left after she completed the sign and later got a call later from the same guy asking her to the carnival. She declined but he called months later and asked her out on a date. When her sister told her to stay away from him because he had a bad reputation, Rothman wanted to date him. When he called again, she accepted. They went to a movie and she decided she did not want to see him again. The summer of 1953 he called to say that he was shipping out for the Naval Reserve but he could go out when he got back. She told him to write, not intending to date, but he wrote everyday. His letters were not typical; they were personal, stream of consciousness, freethinking letters. When he returned they ended up dating and became good companions. He never put any pressure on her and she later found out that the women in his family were very independent and strong. (16:20-22:08)... Rothman and Al dated steadily for about a year before they married in the summer of 1954. During their courtship they did things that did not cost any money like hiking, free concerts, and overnight camping trips. They were both trying to finish graduate school and working. Her mother disapproved but it did not matter to Rothman. Al was offered graduate work at John Hopkins University in Baltimore Maryland and she applied for a position in the public school system there. They decided to move together and prepared to graduate before the move. When they told Al's parents his father said "I hope you're not planning on leaving the state without marrying her." She was never asked by Al and felt bad about it. They never talked about it and it took a week after that to tell her parents. She was afraid to tell them; she never told them about her personal life. (22:08-30:44)... Al brought a diamond ring to Rothman that was picked out and bought by his father. She knew she had to tell her family then, and told her sister first. Her sister blew up and told her she was ruining her life. Her parents responded similarly. Her mother was hysterical and it was horrible; they were both screaming and yelling. Her mother insisted that Rothman marry in the temple. Rothman did not want a large ceremony; she wanted a quiet, small ceremony. Her mother planned the ceremony and picked out the dress, which Rothman hated. Rothman was married in the same temple where she first met her husband. The ceremony was large and formal. Rothman demanded she be married at sunset on Saturday and her mother gave in. Rothman was very upset the day of her wedding and she could not eat; she started drinking and was drunk by the time of the ceremony. Al had to sign a Jewish document stating that Rothman's father was literally signing Rothman over to Al. End of tape *** File: fhlrothman4.mp3 (0:00-2:26)... The Jewish document that Al signed that basically said that she was his property was lost and she is fine with that. To her. it symbolized how religion really kept women subservient to men. The ceremony was long and Rothman was very drunk; the reception was fun and she had a good time. The next morning they went to Yosemite for five days camping. (2:26-5:19)... Al is not romantic and Rothman preferred this because she was under so much pressure to finish school. While they were dating, birth control was not available to her; she did not even think of having sexual intercourse. She was sexually active on dates but did not have intercourse. She was never concerned with birth control. (5:19-7:27)... Al was different and he was a great lover; they began to have sexual intercourse and they talked about sex. They had a good sexual relationship and she never got pregnant; he used condoms and knew her cycle. (7:27-9:23)... After she had sex with Al, she started to get bladder infections and had to go to the hospital at one point. The doctors knew about bladder infections but they did not inform her; she learned to apply topical ointment to her tiny lacerations and stopped getting infections. (9:23-13:04)... Rothman's expectations of marriage were to have fun with Al and have children; everyone had children. They were both very busy and they spent long hours away from home; later on in the marriage it presented problems. They had their first child in 1956 and they were living in student housing on Al's graduate stipend. She enjoyed her first child tremendously although she did not have any information on pregnancy and had a difficult labor. She was on Demoral and took the baby with high forceps. (13:04-19:40)... Rothman taught until she had to quit. Although Baltimore had just passed a law that it was legal for married women to teach, pregnant women had to quit when they started showing. She earned $3200/year. Rothman and her husband lived in Baltimore for six years after which they moved to Texas when he got a job teaching at Rice University. She had her second child three years after her first; the second pregnancy was much easier. Al wanted a girl as the first two children were boys. She decided to get pregnant again but her body was not ready; the third pregnancy was very hard and painful. She saw Al even less during this time and the marriage started deteriorating. Al got a job offer at the University of Maryland and they moved again. Rothman was home becoming more of a housewife. (19:40-28:09)... Rothman was not happy doing what housewives did and was bored. She was constantly doing housework and cleaning up after the children. She knew her neighbors but she was always in the house with the kids. Her favorite time was when they all went to the zoo and Al took the kids. The marriage was suffering and after two years in Maryland, Al wanted to move. They decided to move back to California and he took a job at CSU Fullerton in 1964. In 1967 Rothman had her last child and at that point she realized that she and Al had separate lives. She was not happy being identified as mother and wife. She did not like the role she was in but she could not do anything about it. She tried to locate groups to join but really did not have any time. Rothman got to the point that she could not function anymore in the house. She hated her whole life and Al withdrew. (28:09-30:48)... In 1968-9, Rothman read in the CSU Fullerton newspaper that a group of women were getting together to discuss women's lot in life. She attended and realized that she was not the only one that felt angry. She kept trying to make things better in the house but she just gave up once they moved to California. End of tape *** File: fhlrothman5.mp3 (0:00-8:28)... Rothman's marriage was deteriorating, but the sex life for Al was still good. She was unsatisfied with the personal, social part of their marriage. She wanted him to be happy and did not want to start trouble so she did not say anything. She also used the diaphragm which did not allow her to orgasm and she hated it. Around 1966 they began to have conflict over getting pregnant; Al wanted her to get the IUD. She had it put in but it was very painful and after seven months she had it taken out. She had an infection from the IUD and fought with the doctor to take it out; he was angry at her and wanted her to get on the pill. Al decided to get a vasectomy and it took her three months to get over the fear of getting pregnant. After she got over the fear their sex life greatly improved. (8:28-11:55)... Rothman had no sense of politics and when Israel was established as a state she did not know what to think. When she belonged to the Jewish group in Maryland it was for social purposes. She wanted to work to help people in the US and voted Democratic. During McCarthyism she was frightened because she grew up in Hollywood and she did not know what communism was. She was just taught that it was bad. (11:55-17:06)... Rothman went to a meeting at CSU Fullerton called Women's Liberation in 1970. The women were mostly students and some faculty and the women were just talking about issues that concerned them. At the end of the meeting a professor asked her if she wanted to attend a NOW meeting with women her own age. At the time of the meeting, she asked Al to watch the kids and she went to the meeting feeling very vulnerable. There were eight women there, all women with whom she could identify and have as friends. After the first meeting, Rothman began to take an active role, working primarily on reproductive rights. (17:06-19:12)... Al had attained tenure and was happy that Rothman was getting involved. He was home more and took more active roles with the children. Rothman and Al got involved in the Boy and Girl Scouts and both took leadership roles. (19:12-27:11)... When Rothman got involved in NOW in 1968-1969, Al was very supportive. She was very active and became involved with a group in L.A. who was dissatisfied with the reproductive rights movement. She attended their meeting, and this was the beginning of the self-help movement and the friendship/partnership with Carol Downer. Downer introduced suction abortion and Rothman went home and invented the menstrual extractor. Rothman did not have any idea of how sturdy the uterus was and when she found out more she put together a kit that was the menstrual extractor. She got the materials from her kitchen and the local store and Al helped her with the valve. She went back to the next meeting and the women realized they were not talking about abortion, rather they were making their period start. By the summer of 1971, Downer and Rothman went to Seattle and were trained by a doctor to do suction D and C's. That completely demystified the whole picture of abortion for both of them. (27:11-30:55)... D and C abortion is very painful and needs anesthetic. Rothman explains the procedure. The procedure helped Rothman understand what abortion was and how ignorant she was of her own body. She was not expecting to be trained by the doctor in Seattle but he took it as a challenge to train her. She compares doing the procedure to knowing the shape of linoleum in a kitchen and how one would clean it under the cupboards where it cannot be seen; one gets to know the shape and curve of the floor and wall just as she did with the procedure and the uterus. End of tape *** File: fhlrothman6.mp3 (0:00-4:49)... The doctor in Seattle who trained Rothman was not involved in the self-help movement; he was a prime mover to get the abortion law removed and make it legal for technicians to perform abortions. Rothman continued to be part of the self-help group in L.A. with Carol Downer, working out of the Women's Center on Crenshaw Boulevard, 1971-1972. They had one room for themselves where they did self-examination with a speculum. Many women came who were concerned about pregnancy and their health. Rothman and Downer used the magazines from Canada for self-help and birth control. They used their own money and Rothman thinks they may have asked for donations. (4:49-8:40)... In L.A. there were ninety cell groups that called themselves women's groups and Rothman and Downer were asked to do presentations all over. Rothman went into L.A. once a week and then she started going daily. She deserted her family and Al stepped in to take care of the children. She was into something revolutionary and she knew that what she was doing would change the world. She never discussed things with Al and did not think about her family when she was gone. Al was very supportive and he was the primary care giver for the kids. (8:40-11:25)... Rothman's children did not understand why she was gone all of the time and her relationships with them were rocky. Her eldest, Murray was not as affected by her being gone but her younger kids were very resentful of her. Her teenage daughter turned to Al, but when she was seventeen, she began to realize who she was and became close to her mother. (11:25-14:36)... Rothman's daughter did not like what she was doing and was very vocal about it. In her later teenage years, she realized that Rothman was in the women's movement. She became involved with drugs and boys and dropped out of school. When she was seventeen, she got pregnant and Rothman connected with her. She brought her into the clinic and she eventually came to work there. From then on the relationship has been strong and supportive. (14:36-19:36)... Rothman's fourth child went to an open school founded by two feminist teachers that was funded by the Fullerton School District. The school was based on parent-teacher involvement and it stressed problem solving. She went to public school the last two years of high school and went to Fullerton College and CSU Fullerton. End of tape *** File: fhlrothman7.mp3 (0:00-5:31)... Although Rothman's daughter,Theresa, is aware of discrimination against women and they talk about things that come up, she is not an active feminist. Rothman's other daughter, Andrea, had a rocky relationship with her but how is proud of Rothman and her work in the women's movement. Andrea does not like to talk about feminism or discrimination against women; she thinks that if a woman is discriminated against it is because she has not done it right. Andrea is a lesbian, but perhaps because Rothman and the family is so supportive, she is not a feminist. Rothman believes Andrea lives in contradictory ways; feminism has allowed Andrea to live her life and be accepted but she will not accept feminism in her life. (5:31-9:54)... Much of Rothman's life has revolved around the self-help movement and her work in the abortion rights movement. She is part of a book-writing team on health education for women. Because of the conservative swing in the early 1980's Rothman and the women in the clinics had to change their way of running the clinics, running them more traditionally, i.e. the clinic was run by a doctor who had all of the say. Rothman hated it. The clinics were increasingly harassed and they had to get malpractice insurance. But because it was run by doctors, and the doctors did not want the clinics to have insurance, the clinics had to find other means. (9:54-14:41)... By 1984, Rothman shifted from the day to day work in the clinic to administrative level. She has worked in all aspects of the clinic, including training doctors to do abortions. She worked in policy making and overview in L.A. in 1984. She worked at the Federation of Feminist Health Centers 55-60 hours a week. She had an apartment during the week and went home on the weekends. She worked there for about 2 years but then Al wanted her to come back home. (14:41-20:26)... Today, Rothman has her own territory and people respect it; she does not have to tell anyone where she is going. She has family that looks to her and she is the "sandwich" generation where she has family on both sides that look to her for help. She does not like the situation she is in but she has been forced to do it. She would change this by having more people share the responsibility. Being in the "sandwich" position takes away from her health and there is no one to take care of her. Al is starting to have health problems and she took him to Mexico to get alternative health care. She researched and talked to people and in three days in Mexico they cleared up a lot of his problems. (20:26-23:59)... Rothman continues to work with the Federation at home. She obtained her M.A. from Chapman College. After she graduated with her M.A., she wanted to do nothing and did; she took clocks down because she did not want them to run her life. She went to a few conferences and gave papers. She also goes to Hawaii every summer to relax. (23:59-26:46)... Rothman's grandchildren come to her house every day after school and Al helps quite a bit as well. She works on a project basis with the Federation and she is going to Spain to participate in a feminist book fair. She is working on a chapter of a book that was never published. She prefers to work from home and does not want to work in an office anymore. (26:46-30:53)... Rothman's friendships she has are an outgrowth of the women's movement. She can call on these friends to talk and to work on projects now and then. She defined herself in the 1950's as a 50's woman and a daughter of an immigrant family. She was raised with the idea of finding a man who was a good provider. She played the role that was dictated to her except for going to college which her parents disapproved. End of tape *** File: fhlrothman8.mp3 (0:00-5:27)... Rothman thought the 1950's were wonderful, she believed she was doing everything right and except for being bored she thought things were great. Now her life is different, she has an awareness and understanding of the world. Her values and philosophy guide her to live a life that is more active in issues. She sees that the feminist movement by definition today is defined by the white male society. She wants to live in an egalitarian society that shares and gives to all regardless of who someone is and what clothes they wear. She thinks competition is destructive and that women's lives are not the only ones that need to be better; her feminism is inclusive. If she was a young woman today she would be fighting if she had a consciousness; if not she would be struggling to survive. (5:27-7:53)... Rothman's advice for women is to think of life in terms of waves where there are peaks and valleys. The change occurs in the peaks and its not always bad to be in a valley; things will not always be the same. The emphasis should be on making things better for ALL people. (7:53-10:44)... Rothman was not a part of any subculture and pop culture did not play a role in her life; she was too busy. There was a television in her home growing up but she was not allowed to watch it; her father watched it. She did get a t.v. when she married but rarely watched it because she was so enmeshed in her own life. When the Vietnam War demonstrations were going on she had no idea of what was going on and she did not watch it on the news. She was so busy with her daily life and just trying to survive. (10:44-12:13)... Rothman does not have regrets as she believes we do not really have any choices anyway; where she can make things better she believes that she should try her best to change things. End of tape
- SUBJECT BIO - Lorraine Rothman was a founding member of the feminist Self-Help Clinic movement and a major mover of many successful behind-the-scenes projects. With Carol Downer, she worked on the concept of menstrual extraction as a viable women's home health care technique; and, in 1971, she invented the Del-Em menstrual extraction kit, which was patented n 1974. Born in San Francisco, Lorraine Fleishman was the middle child in a large extended Russian-Ukrainian Jewish family. She frequently helped her father and mother in their furniture store, where she learned how to rebuild distressed furniture. In 1944, the family moved to Los Angeles, where Rothman attended junior and senior high schools and then college. While working full time, she attended Los Angeles City College (LACC) and California State University in Los Angeles (CSULA), where she received a BA and teaching credential in 1954. Many years later, she earned an MA in organizational development and training. After marrying in 1954, she moved to Baltimore with her husband, Al Rothman, who was beginning on his doctorate degree and she began teaching in the Baltimore Public School System. After several moves, Rothman returned to California with her husband and three children in 1964 and resumed public school teaching. Her fourth child was born three years later. In 1968, Rothman first joined a local women's liberation group that met at CSU Fullerton, and then became a founding member of the Orange County chapter of NOW. She became involved in women's reproductive rights activities and actions from the inception of the chapter. Rothman's collaborative relationship with Carol Downer and the Self-Help Clinic movement began when she attended an April 7, 1971 meeting organized by Downer to discuss women's reproductive rights and abortion. At the second meeting, one week later, Rothman shared her idea of a safe home health care tool, demonstrating the prototype of the Del-Em menstrual extraction kit. Shortly afterwards, Downer and Rothman founded the Feminist Women's Health Center (FWHC) in Los Angeles; Rothman went on to open a second FWHC in Orange County, closer to her home and family. Over the next two decades, Rothman traveled widely, taking the Self-Help Clinic concept to women's groups both in and outside the US, including New Zealand (1974). In 1989, she was invited to speak in Seville, Spain at a government-sponsored conference on reproductive health. During these years, even as she took on more policy and administrative work, Rothman wrote health education and political tracts for the FWHCs and was an active member of the Centers' writing team that produced health education books for the general public. In 1999, Rothman produced her own publications that questioned the safety of hormone drugs for menopausal women. She continues to research health and medical literature that pertain to women's health, and today is specifically interested in older women's health concerns. TOPICS - meeting husband; courtship; wedding day; parent's attitudes toward husband and wedding; wedding ceremony; pregnancy; move to Baltimore; teaching during pregnancy; second pregnancy; move to California; deterioration of marriage; life crisis; birth control; first involvement with women's movement; NOW meeting; beginning of self-help movement; menstrual extractor; learning D and C abortion;self-help movement; family life; relationships with children and husband; relationship with daughters; life's work in the movement; role in the "sandwich" generation; work today; defining herself in the 1950's versus 1990's; conclusion; life in the fifties vs; now; advise to young women; role of pop culture in her life growing up;
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