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Erickson, Ethel (audio interview #1 of 1)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - One relatively long interview was conducted with Ethel Erickson at her apartment in the Washington, DC area during a research visit by Gluck to the Women's Bureau. The bureau staff provided contact information for Erickson, who was quite pleased to be contacted and to be interviewed. Like the interview conducted with Mary Elizabeth Pidgeon during this same trip, Erickson's interview revealed insights into the working of the bureau, and particularly its role as an advocate for working women.
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- 2021-02-01
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- SUBJECT BIO - Ethel Erickson joined the Women's Bureau during its early days in the early 1920s and remained at the bureau until her retirement in the 1950s. One of two daughters of a Swedish family, Erickson was raised in Minnesota, where she received her B.A. in business. Afterwards, she went to the University of Chicago where she received her M.A. and initiated her doctoral studies in business. While there, she came into contact with Sophonisba Breckenridge who tried to convince her to pursue a career in social work. Erickson did not complete her doctoral studies, and instead moved to southern California, where she taught school. After taking the civil service exam, she was offered a position as a field investigator for the Women's Bureau. She continued to work in the field, conducting and directing studies until the changes in the bureau in the postwar period. At that time, she moved east and for the first time got her own apartment. As the function and organization of the Women's Bureau began to change, she decided to retire. The interview with Ethel Erickson was conducted under the auspices of the Feminist History Research Project. Like the interview conducted during the same time period with Mary Elizabeth Pidgeon, Erickson's interview provides valuable insight both into the functioning of the bureau and its role as an advocacy agency for working women. TOPICS - family background; childhood; family life; University of Chicago; Sophonisba Breckinridge; Edith Abbott; Paul Douglas; migration to California; teaching positions; Women's Bureau hire; field supervisor role, Women's Bureau; Women's Bureau studies; NWP; 1925 Women in Industry Conference; ERA fight; Mary Anderson; Mary McDowell; attitudes towards protective legislation; Women's Bureau and women's rights;structure and organization of field work in the Women's Bureau; Mary Anderson; relationship with NWP; relationship of Women's Bureau staff and women's organizations; friendships and social life; travel arrangements and accommodations; Women's Bureau studies; shift to focus on professional women;demographics of Women's Bureau staff; social life and friends; Mary Anderson; changes at the Women's Bureau; postwar studies of the Women's Bureau; Mary Elizabeth Pidgeon; leadership of Women's Bureau; Frieda Miller; Mary (?) Leopold; retirement; living arrangements; attitudes towards ERA and equal pay; Business and Professional Women's Organization; change in focus of Women's Bureau;Topics on this side of the include: survey of laundry workers; This interview is only 0:43 seconds long;
- *** File: refeerickson1.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-4:11)... Each of Erickson's parents immigrated to the US from Sweden when they were in their late teens, eventually settling in Minnesota, where they met. Her mother was employed as a domestic worker for many years and then worked in a friend's store after she married Erickson's father. Both parents were educated in Sweden, and her father began taking English and bookkeeping courses at the YMCA in Minnesota. Initially, he worked as a horse caretaker but then eventually got into real estate and went into business for himself. Erickson was born in Minneapolis in 1897. She had one younger brother. (4:11-6:35)... Erickson's mother enjoyed reading about current events and often chided her daughter for not reading the local newspaper. Erickson does not recall having any specific thoughts about her future when she was a young girl. Her family was economically comfortable and she believed that if she wanted to stay in school her parents could afford it for quite some time. She never felt limited in her educational pursuits because of her gender. (6:35-9:28)... Erickson obtained a B.A. from the University of Minnesota and then transferred into the business graduate program at the University of Chicago where she obtained an MA. There, she resided in Green Hall and had regular contact with Sophonisba Breckinridge and Edith Abbott. Breckinridge tried to convince Erickson to pursue a career in social work but Erickson was set on working in the field of business. During her doctoral studies, Erickson became tired of college and decided to "get out." To the best of Erickson's recollection, except for Mary Anderson, none of the other women employed at the Women's Bureau who were educated at the University of Chicago. (9:28-10:38)... Erickson saw an advertisement calling on women to take a civil service examination for work in the Women's Bureau. She went to the local post office and took the examination, but did not hear anything for quite some time because she did not fill out a preliminary application. It was not until Erickson moved to Los Angeles, that she received a letter from Anderson and the Bureau. (10:38-14:47)... All the conversations that Erickson had with Breckinridge and women in the social work field at the University of Chicago took place in Green Hall. Breckinridge encouraged Erickson, who was interested in labor issues, to attend labor meetings. Erickson discusses her economic professors, Paul Douglas and Paul Miller. During her time at the university, she was "floating" around and was not pushed in any one direction. When Erickson took the civil service examination, she decided that she was not going to return to college to finish her doctorate. She wrote the introduction to her doctoral thesis, the subject of which was the "Administration of the Workers Compensation Law in Illinois." Part of this study was to include interviews with 500 worker compensation recipients. Erickson does not recall many women at the university pursuing their doctoral degrees at the time. (14:47-16:27)... After Erickson left the University of Chicago, she moved to California where she turned down a $1,500/year bank job. She decided to go into teaching instead; she had taught in Minneapolis after receiving her BA. Erickson taught in Los Angeles until she accepted a position at the Women's Bureau. (16:27-21:10)... Erickson never not previously heard of the Women's Bureau and was not familiar with their work. Grace Abbott informed Erickson that her name would be removed from the list of applicants for the Children's Bureau and be placed on a list for the Women's Bureau instead. She received a letter from Mary Anderson offering her a job at the Women's Bureau as a field investigator. Initially she was assigned to a field supervisor and sent to Delaware to conduct state surveys of working women, particularly those employed in the canning industries. A substantial part of her responsibilities involved visiting women in their homes or in the factories to discuss their working conditions. The majority of the women interviewed were receptive to Erickson's questions and the work being conducted by the Women's Bureau. (16:27-23:02)... A field agent supervised the field workers at the Women's Bureau. There were only ten women employed as field workers when Erickson began working for the bureau. The bureau occasionally hired applicants from the civil service list to help out with large surveys like the one entitled, "Effective Labor Legislation on Women's Employment Opportunities." The bureau was small and adjusted its staff to survey requests. (23:02-31:16)... Erickson attended the Women in Industry conference in 1925, at which the NWP stormed the platform in protest of protective legislation. Members of the NWP were invited to the conference, but were not slated to speak on the platform. Erickson remembers Alice Paul and Doris Stevens demanding an opportunity to speak at the conference. The NWP targeted Mary Anderson and the work of the Women's Bureau for their role in supporting protective legislation. Erickson notes that Anderson "did not have any great antagonism.... She was dedicated to the idea that legislation was one of the ways of gaining things for women," and believed that people who opposed protective legislation were "middle-class freaks" who did not understand the issues facing working woman. When the NWP attacked Anderson, women like Mary McDowell rose to her defense and quickly "laid them out." It was agreed that a special meeting would be held at which people could discuss their views for and against protective legislation. The conference was publicized in the newspapers and widely attended by women and men involved in labor organizations. (31:16-33:08)... The women at the 1925 Women in Industry conference who supported protective legislation outnumbered its opponents, namely the NWP. Erickson did not know the extent to which protective legislation benefited women or how it would be enforced. She believed that "general" legislation, such as the Wage and Hour Law, was a good example of how legislation improved working conditions for both women and men. Women in states with minimum wage laws were paid higher wages than women in states with no minimum wage laws. She cites a study that she conducted of laundry workers in California as an example of the benefit of protective legislation for women. Women in the Women's Bureau did not disagree or debate the relevance of protective legislation because their purpose was to "promote the welfare of wage earning women." (33:08-39:50)... Erickson did not define herself as a feminist while working at the Women's Bureau, nor did most of the women she worked with. In some ways, it was disadvantageous to be involved in partisan politics or community groups because it interfered with field investigations. People would have been less willing to cooperate with her if they thought she was with the LWV or women's labor unions. Over the years, women in the Women's Bureau developed ideas about women's rights and recognized their limited opportunities in the professional job market. Erickson worked with a woman who quit after a short time because she felt that clerical work was not acceptable work for a woman with a college degree. Erickson did not have time to get involved in community groups because of her workload and travel schedule. She talks about her responsibilities as a field worker and her relationship with employers, who voluntarily supplied information. There were no laws that required employers to make their records or employees available for inquiry. (39:50-42:39)... Field investigators worked in teams depending on the type of study being conducted. When Erickson worked on the study of cannery women, she handled the West Coast. Although people were generally assigned at random, requests to work with a particular field worker were honored. Although assignments were not generally made on the basis of a staff member's special skills or expertise, if the study required a heavy amount of accounting, Erickson was usually assigned to it because of her bookkeeping skills. Generally, Erickson completed her assignments alone though there were times when she worked with other field workers on studies. End of tape. *** File: refeerickson2.mp3 (0:00-1:11)... Typically, the division requesting field assistance prepared the schedules for the Women's Bureau studies. Mary Anderson approved these schedules. Erickson also created her own schedules and preferred to keep the questions to a minimum so that the women being interviewed would not become tired or bored. (1:11-10:08)... Following the 1925 debate with the NWP over protective legislation, the Women's Bureau initiated an investigation into effective labor legislation for women. The NWP apprised the Women's Bureau of discrimination cases that mainly dealt with hours and wages. The claims were investigated and the Women's Bureau published its findings in a formal report. California was an easy target for the NWP because it was one of the few states with a minimum wage and hour law for women. Erickson describes some of the cases of discrimination reported by the NWP. The NWP eventually lost interest in Women's Bureau activities and there was a dormant period of collaboration between the two groups from the late 1920s until after WWII. (10:08-17:04)... The staff women in the Women's Bureau dealt with women in political organizations and women's groups on a social rather than a professional level. They often socialized at benefit lunches or similar functions. Erickson's circle of friends was quite limited because she worked in the field. Women who worked in other capacities at the bureau probably were able to maintain close friendships with each other and with women outside the bureau. During her twenty-five year career as a field worker, Erickson stayed with friends whenever she visited certain areas. It was not until the 1950s that she got an apartment. (17:04-17:58)... Although there may have been married women working in the Women's Bureau, Erickson does not believe that any of the field workers were married. Women who worked in the field were constantly moving around for long periods. There were occasions when she was gone for six months at a time. (17:58-19:44)... There is an interruption in this segment while Erickson takes a restroom break. The majority of surveys conducted at the Women's Bureau came by way of requests from state agencies, social workers, and women's organizations. The bureau often turned down requests because of its limited staff. (19:44-24:47)... Erickson lived an isolated life while working as a field worker for the Women's Bureau. Although the bureau did not discourage women from joining women's organizations and community groups, women who worked in the field rarely had any time to pursue these interests. She often ate alone and went to business establishments by herself. She never encountered any negative reactions because she was a single woman traveling alone. She occasionally stayed at the YWCA, but does not recall any formal professional women's organizations that catered to women in her situation. She frequented a women's social club in San Francisco that offered rooms to women traveling through the city. A woman involved in a union organization may have had more connections with union offices in other cities. Erickson occasionally made friends with women employed in state labor organizations but she had to maintain an impartial stance in her dealings with people in these types of organizations for the sake of her work. (24:47-30:13)... Many of the studies Erickson conducted involved gathering information from employers' records. She copied this information by hand and all of the tabulations were completed at the Women's Bureau headquarters in Washington, DC. She discusses a particular study she did involving payroll materials. Field agents occasionally assisted in writing reports, as well as clarified the data and facts for people writing the reports. (30:13-34:30)... Erickson did not view studies at the Women's Bureau in terms of order of importance. It was difficult to measure the impact the studies had on working women. During her tenure at the bureau, she noticed that they conducted fewer surveys for states and women's organizations. In addition, fieldwork decreased over time. During the 1930s, there were several studies initiated on the effect of the Depression on welfare measures and women's employment. She remembers doing a study on women adrift, which was misinterpreted because she used the words "loose women" in the study rather than "adrift." She describes her contact with a welfare recipient during the Depression. (34:30-41:15)... During the 1920s, collaboration with women's organization was high because the government began offering women positions in specific departments and women's issues became more prominent. The Statistical Division developed many of the survey schedules for field agents. She digresses regarding a nationwide study she completed regarding wages for beauty operators and another conducted after WWI on part-time employment. (41:15-42:50)... Most of the women employed at the Women's Bureau were college graduates. Because of Mary Anderson's industrial background, she also hired women from similar backgrounds. Erickson discusses her friendships with some of these women, indicating that all of the women were very friendly with each other. End of tape. *** File: refeerickson3.mp3 (0:00-1:05)... Erickson continues her discussion on the educational and employment background of women at the Women's Bureau. More than a commitment to the bureau, Erickson felt that she was simply doing a job. It was difficult if you did not have the time to make community ties or develop friendships. She was lucky in that she had friends in many of the states where she conducted studies. (1:05-7:22)... The office environment at the Women's Bureau was friendly. The women coordinated their efforts and volunteered to help each other whenever possible. This atmosphere gradually changed over time, particularly after Mary Anderson left the bureau. People were very devoted to Anderson and she was a respected woman. Even though Anderson was not formally educated, she had a great deal of common sense. She recognized that she lacked certain skills, but probably did not ever feel inadequate about her educational background. The people most loyal to her were those with the highest academic training. The change in the bureau was evident in the individualistic ideals possessed by the younger generation of women hired there. Over time, these women, as well as the veterans of the bureau, became disillusioned with the impact of their work on society. Another transitional phase occurred following WWII when new interests and concepts came to the fore. (7:22-11:21)... Erickson discusses the postwar job market for women and the Women's Bureau study on women employed in war production industries. She agrees that this study revealed a level of advocacy that was also obvious in many of the earlier studies conducted by the bureau. However, the bureau was never supposed to be obvious about its position on women's status in the job market. At the time this study was conducted, she was working on an extensive study on women employed in the telephone industry, as well as equal pay studies. (11:21-15:59)... During the postwar period, Erickson was involved in a study with Mary Elizabeth Pidgeon that dealt with women's absenteeism. This study was never published because the findings did not portray women in a positive light. Absenteeism among women was directly related to their family and household responsibilities. Erickson talks about Pidgeon's role in the Women's Bureau. (15:59-19:15)... Erickson compares the leadership of Anderson and Frieda Miller noting that Anderson communicated with her staff via telephone or in person, while Miller began a trend of written correspondence with her staff. The structure of the Women's Bureau up to WWII was informal, but the quality of research was high in part to Anderson's direct approach of communication with her staff. There was some resentment towards Miller in the beginning because she brought a group of people with her when she started at the bureau. Erickson was not exposed to these tensions very often because she worked in the field. (19:15-21:35)... When she was conducting a study on beauty operators, Erickson did not have any conflicts with unions trying to organize those workers. In fact, she recalls that beauty operators were very disorganized and did not have a desire to join the union. At the time, beauty operators were content with their wages and hours. (21:35-26:34)... After WWII, fieldwork gradually began to decrease and Erickson started working in the headquarters of Women's Bureau on a regular basis. She then worked as a part-time field consultant and ultimately decided to retire from the bureau in 1957. During her tenure with the bureau, Erickson saw three leadership changes: Mary Anderson, Frieda Miller, and Mary (?) Leopold. Leopold was the first formal political appointment to the bureau. Erickson discusses her living arrangements in a co-op apartment complex and talks about her pets, speaking to one of her cats lovingly during the interview. (26:34-28:58)... In its early development, there was a strong core feeling in the Women's Bureau that is no longer present. Erickson comments that she is not sure what the current function or purpose of the bureau is; she does not know what types of studies are being conducted by the bureau and if they are similar to those conducted during her tenure with the bureau. There was far more cooperation with women's organizations and labor groups under Mary Anderson's leadership because she was an approachable. Erickson remembers when the newly formed telephone union sought Anderson's assistance in conducting a survey on its women's membership. Unions no longer obtain assistance from federal agencies because they have research people of their own. (28:58-40:19)... It is difficult to measure whether the work Erickson did at the Women's Bureau resulted in any real changes for women. The studies at the bureau were important because they provided vital background information on women and labor. Erickson discusses her attitudes towards the ERA and equal pay. She describes some of the equal pay studies she worked on while employed at the bureau. She digresses regarding a study conducted during the Prohibition involving a factory that refused to employ women. (40:19-45:10)... The Business and Professional Women's Organization was concerned about upward mobility studies rather than wage-earning or industrial women. The Women's Bureau expanded its studies from industrial women to women employed in white-collar jobs. This shift paralleled the passage of the Wage and Hour Law and the more formal organization of women in the work force. However, it was more difficult to organize white collar workers than wage earning workers. At that time, Erickson conducted a survey on the effect of technological changes on women's labor and a study dealing with fatigue in the workplace. Erickson digresses regarding another study involving laundry workers. End of tape. *** File: refeerickson4.mp3 (0:00-0:43)... Erickson continues her discussion regarding the survey she conducted for the Women's Bureau on laundry workers. This segment is very brief and includes concluding statements to the interview. End of tape.
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