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Nestor, Barbara (audio interview #6 of 10)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - In this fifth interview, Barbara Nestor displays the same enthusiasm and candidness as in previous sessions. Her stamina was not at all diminished, and three tapes were recorded in this session. 12/20/1974
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- *** File: refbnestor10.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-5:05)... The interview begins abruptly with a discussion of Nestor's grandson, Richard Healey (Ricky), Dorothy's son. Nestor explains that Ricky is a very politically-minded individual who has participated in various social movements throughout his life. She recalls that while attending Tulane University on a scholarship, the dean accused Ricky of being a member of the Communist Party. Ricky denied that he was a member and defended his mother when the dean criticized her. Ricky explained to the dean that although he was not a member of the party, he shared his mother's political views. (5:05-15:18)... Following the Palmer Raids of 1920s, the Communist Party went underground to a limited extent. Communists generally experienced a feeling of terror and feared unemployment and arrest. She believes that this fear was exacerbated because the prison system was very harsh and the "third degree" was used to torture prisoners. She digresses into a discussion of Dorothy's imprisonment for six months in Imperial Valley [Note: this was later, probably in the 1930s.] Nestor explains how the Communist Party functioned as an underground organization during the Red Scare phase. Telephone communication among party members was abandoned and meetings were organized by word of mouth only. Although CP members were careful during this period, there was really no way to hide their activities from opponents. With regard to party membership, during these early years, the party was not vigilant in their screening process of new members, allowing people to enter the party with a recommendation from another party member. (15:18-22:07)... During the Palmer Raids and the period of underground activity, the Communist Party in Denver, Colorado, split into smaller cells of six or seven members. As an underground organization, the party continued to work with unions and distributed leaflets. Nestor recalls that the party organized letter-writing campaigns and also participated in forums sponsored by the Methodist Church, which included speakers such as Jane Addams and David Starr Jordan. Nestor discusses her suspicion of a woman in the party after discovering a large pile of leaflets in the woman's closet, which were supposed to be distributed. In general, if the party was suspicious of a member, they organized a meeting and slowly eased people out by limiting communication and then formally expelling them. (She digresses into a discussion of her relationship to her children's teachers and her success in educating them about radical deals.) (22:07-33:22)... When distributing leaflets in the 1920s, the literature was generally in the name of a union and called for workers to organize. In 1921, she and her family left Denver and moved to California. Between 1921-36, her main priority was her children and she did not neglect them for political activities. She discusses her relationship with her children, indicating that she never pressured them to become involved in radical politics or to join the CP. She provides the years of birth and names of her children and describes her home and family life. She explains her fear of being left alone as a result of an experience she had as a small girl when a man lured her to a secluded area under false pretenses and tried to molest her. Although Nestor did not rejoin the CP until 1938, her social life during this period revolved around her comrades in the party. She participated in party activities and was also active with the International Labor Defense (ILD). (33:22-40:51)... Nestor decided to move to California because she felt that the climate was better suited to Dorothy's health. The family first settled in Los Angeles for one year and then moved to Oakland when her husband was transferred there for work. She took a leave of absence from the Communist Party and had very little contact with party members during her initial stay in Los Angeles. During her years in Oakland, she did participate in picketing activities and distributed leaflets, but was not an official member of the party. She was also active in writing letters to senators and congressmen. She returned to Los Angeles in 1930 following her husband's death. Nestor digresses and talks about Dorothy's disposition towards radical movements, indicating that when she was six years old, she yelled at scabs during a labor strike. While living in Oakland, Nestor recalls that the party sent Dorothy to distribute pamphlets in a dangerous neighborhood when she was only twelve years old. It angered Nestor that the party would be so careless as to her child's welfare. end of tape *** File: refbnestor11.mp3 (0:00-2:19)... After coming to California, Nestor's family moved several times between the years of 1921-28. After only a year in Los Angeles, they moved to Oakland. In 1922, when her husband was transferred back to Los Angeles, the family lived there until 1924. They then returned to Oakland and her husband switched from selling food products to selling Samsonite luggage. They family settled in Berkeley and in 1928, her son, Bernard, enrolled in UC, Berkeley, and the family moved to a home closer to the university. (2:19-6:10)... Although she kept in contact with comrades and attended communist meetings while living in California, she did not rejoin the party until 1936 [she earlier gave the date as 1938.] She occasionally distributed leaflets and volunteered to speak on street corners in Oakland when the party needed speakers. During these speeches, she typically discussed the need for organization and recognition of the party. In 1926, she came into contact with settlement people, such as Anita Whitney, at which time the two became close friends. Nestor was also active with the ILD in Oakland and then transferred her membership to the Frederick Douglass chapter in Berkeley, where she acted as the secretary for several years. (6:10-11:32)... She discusses her disappointment with the Communist Party when the factional dispute between Jay Lovestone and William Z. Foster erupted in the 1920s. She did not believe it was necessary for the two men to seek resolution from Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union. Although she supported Foster, she thought Lovestone was the more intelligent of the two. After Stalin decided to support Foster, Lovestone became an enemy of the party. During this period, Nestor was not an active member of the party. She discusses her children's involvement in radical movements, indicating that Dorothy joined the Young Communist League when she was fourteen years old, and Frances was a member of the Communist Party. Nestor discusses her attitudes towards the Young Communist League, remarking on its "loose" structure. (11:32-15:10)... Nestor discusses her feelings about Trotskyism and Trotskyites (sic) [Note: This term was used by members of the CP as a term of opprobrium. The more acceptable term is Trotskyist.] She did not feel the same type of hatred that most CP members felt towards them. Although she did not officially oppose the party, she did argue against party policies within her communist group when she disagreed with them. She believes that most of her comrades accepted the fact that it was not her style to be a passive follower. As another example of her refusal to align with the party line, she cites her position on the 1930s line of self-determination for African Americans. (15:10-24:55)... She discusses her response to the analysis popularized in 1928 that the country was in the third stage of capitalism and that a revolution was imminent. She disputed the accuracy of this assessment; her husband's contact with people in various parts of the country illustrated that communism was a small movement compared to capitalism. She discusses the impact of this ideal on the ILD, indicating that a shift towards mass organization during this period was not so prominent in the ILD as in the Communist Party. Within her ILD chapter, party members comprised approximately half of the membership. She discusses the communist control of the ILD, suggesting that when the party joined the organization, it assumed leadership status and developed ILD policies. In spite of her association with the party, she believes that the intervention in ILD activities undermined its influence and was a factor in the organization's demise. She is generally alone in this argument. Early on in her life, she equated her criticism of party policies with a lack of understanding and did not have the courage to challenge party politics. In general, she finds that many people in the party are simply blind followers. (24:55-27:02)... Nestor was the secretary of the Berkeley chapter of the ILD for several years. She is critical of the CP control of the ILD, feeling that is was more important to work as a unit for the defense of the workers, rather than for the party to capture the ILD. (27:02-35:27)... Nestor continues a discussion of her activities in the ILD. She was very active in campaigning for people running for political officers, e.g. Anita Whitney's campaign for the senate in 1928. Typically, she traveled door to door and presented a pro-labor stance. The response from those she spoke with was positive. (35:27-41:59)... In 1929-30, she was arrested while protesting the arrest of Edgar Owen and Archie Brown for attempting to organize U.S. Battery Works. At the time, she was picketing in front of City Hall. She received a three-day jail sentence for disturbing the peace. This was the first time she was in jail; she describes her experiences with her cellmates and the conditions in jail. There is a brief discussion of Nestor's trial prior to the end of the interview. end of tape *** File: refbnestor12.mp3 (8:51-11:48)... Nestor was arrested in Oakland for disturbing the peace and congregating in a forbidden zone. Bail was paid by Whitney and the court trial was scheduled shortly after Nestor's release. She did not enjoy her jail experience and had a difficult time sleeping and eating. The protest action was supported by the ILD, but communists and other pro-labor people also participated in the protest. She digresses into a discussion of an occasion when Whitney was arrested and the resulting trial. (11:48-18:46)... The ILD was mainly involved in national issues. Membership dues were equally distributed between the national and local chapters. These dues were used to pay for expenses, but members on the local level were not paid for their work with the ILD. In general, she objected to this policy because people could not afford to work without pay, especially when they needed money for rent and food. Many times, people sought refuge at Nestor's home because they did not have the means to support themselves. However, many people accepted this policy and it was several years before she heard anyone complain about not receiving pay for their activities. She recalls an incident when an organizer left with Whitney's car and $600 Whitney did not pursue this person because she believed he was entitled to this money since he was not compensated for his services. Nestor believes that the establishment of a fund would at least pay people a minimum wage for their work. She also believes that when someone is receiving compensation for their services they are more responsible for their actions, while a volunteer is not. (18:46-20:22)... The ILD both fought for causes and served an educational purpose. Nestor believes it was a very important organization and she was disappointed when it dissolved. She believes that it was a better organization than the ACLU, which did not even defend one of its founding members, Elizabeth Gurley Flynn. After the ILD disbanded, Nestor returned to the Communist Party and formally re-joined in 1936. [Note: there are inconsistencies in the date she gives. It is not clear if it was 1936 or 1938.] (20:22-22:45)... Nestor was well known in the community and participated in various activities. Their home in Berkeley was a headquarters for activity and her son and his fellow students from UC often congregated there. When her daughter Frances was working at the library, other librarians were invited to their home for social gatherings. Nestor recalls the occasion when her daughter Carol Jean requested that her mother speak to her teachers about the invasion of Spain (sic). Not only did she speak to the teachers, but she also provided them with literature. (22:45-25:36)... Nestor was also active in the PTA and often raised about how world events affected her children. Initially, the PTA advised against speaking up during meetings and tried to discourage this practice. However, she argued that she was a parent with every right to discuss subjects in the interest of her children. In general, she received a positive response and she and the principal of the school became close friends. (25:36-30:13)... As the Depression approached, Nestor's husband continued to work. He was suffering from diabetes and died in 1930 while on a business trip in Seattle. She sold her home in Berkeley and the family returned to Los Angeles to be close to her mother and siblings. Prior to leaving for Los Angeles, Nestor received an operation to repair her uterus. She believes the problem resulted from the thirteen abortions she had during her childbearing years. The doctor who performed the operation was a friend of the Communist Party who had worked in the Soviet Union. (30:13-41:10)... After her husband died, she invested the $9,000.00 she received from the proceeds of the sale of her house and from an insurance settlement in the stock market. She also worked for the Mission Tower and Supply Company, where she mended uniforms and earned $2.50 a day. She discusses her financial situation during the years after her husband's death and her investments in the stock market. Although she did not have very much knowledge of the market, she knew how to invest and also received guidance on where to invest her money. She continues to live off her investments and believes in order to survive in a capitalist country, she had to venture into capitalist economics. Some of her communist comrades were surprised that she was making a living this way, but she needed to support her family and had very few options available to her as an unskilled woman. (41:10-43:09)... She discusses Dorothy's involvement in the Unemployed Councils in Berkeley, Oakland, and Los Angeles. Although Nestor supported the organization and occasionally went on picket lines, her association was very limited. end of tape
- SUBJECT BIO - Barbara Nestor, the mother of Dorothy Healey (former chair, Southern California District, CPUSA), was a radical activist in her own right. Born in Hungary, she was raised first in St. Louis and then in Denver, Colorado. She became a socialist when she was only sixteen, and joined the Socialist Party in 1915. During WWI, she engaged in anti-war agitation. In 1919, when the Communist Party was formed in the US, she joined. After moving to Oakland, California in 1921 with her husband, Joe Rosenblum, and her children, she maintained a high level of activity, particularly with the International Labor Defense, and often risked arrest. She did not re-join the Communist Party until 1936, five years after she moved to Los Angeles. The interviews about the Los Angeles years detail the kind of rank and file organizing in which she engaged. Nestor's oral history sheds light both on her own thinking and on the influence she had on the development of her children's radicalism. Her interviews also reveal a great deal about her relationship with her daughter, Dorothy Healey and her grandson, Richard, for whom she had primary caretaking responsibilities, especially during the 1950s and the Smith Act trials. TOPICS - impact of Palmer Raids; motherhood; children; home life; husband (Joe Rosenblum); and move to California in 1921;move to California; leave of absence from the Communist Party; International Labor Defense; factionalism in the Communist Party' Foster-Lovestone conflict; arrest during labor protest and experience in jail;court trial following arrest for labor protest; attitudes towards volunteerism and lack of pay in the ILD; home life; involvement in PTA; death of husband; economic status; investments in the stock market; and attitudes towards living within a capitalistic system;
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