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Seiler, Laura Ellsworth (audio interview #2 of 2)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - In this second interview, which explored more aspects of Seiler's background, Seiler was reluctant to record some information, particularly about her father and her first husband. There were several occasions when she requested that the tape be turned off, particularly when she related an account of her confrontation with Harriet Stanton Blatch. Some of the material on her relationship with Blatch was not recorded in full. 6/19/1974
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- *** File: sufleseiler3.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-2:13)... Tape introduction (2:13-4:29)... Note: there is an audio problem in beginning ot segment. Seiler discusses male suffragists and their courage to speak out about suffrage, citing Floyd Dell's affiliation with the suffrage movement. In regards to the women's liberation movement, she notes that there are very few men who support the movement, stating that many men probably find it amusing that women want to work in traditional male occupations. (4:29-11:02)... Her mother and father separated when she was a baby and she was raised in her grandfather's house in Ithaca, New York. She is the youngest of three children; her sister is 7 years older than her, and her brother five years older. Her grandfather's house was very large and he employed several servants. He was a judge and a practicing lawyer. A democrat, her grandfather would not read the local papers, but would have the more democratic papers sent to his house. The family would gather around her grandfather and he would read the more important articles to them. In 1835, her grandfather graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Cornell University, which at that time was known for its free thinkers. While her family went to church, her grandfather abstained. Her grandfather instilled in her the beliefs that people are not judged by what they have, but by who they are. Her grandfather retired from law when he was 81 and died at the age of 84 when she was ten years old. (11:02-14:37)... Her grandmother was a very protective Victorian woman. Although she seemed very reserved, Seiler recalls accidentally catching her grandmother sitting in her grandfather's lap. Generally, however, she doesn't recall her grandparents showing any signs of affection towards one another. Her grandmother was not active in women's clubs, but did attend social receptions on a regular basis. She died when Seiler was eight years old. Her grandfather did not like to entertain guests. Visitors to the household were calling on the women of the house. She describes her grandfather was a removed patriarch. (14:37-16:56)... Seiler's mother was very concerned about her children. She cannot recall her mother being involved in any organizations, and although she attended church on a regular basis, she does not think she was involved in any church work. Although not a suffragist herself, her mother was very sympathetic to the movement. Seiler's sister became interested in suffrage because she was a close friend of Nora Blatch, Harriet Stanton Blatch's daughter. Nora Blatch attended Cornell University with Seiler's sister and often visited the family household. (16:56-20:28)... Seiler's family traced their ancestors back to the pre-Revolutionary era and were of solid New England stock. Her mother and father were separated when she was a child, but her mother did not get a divorce until 1900. She notes that her grandfather insisted that her mother get a divorce because he wanted to make sure there would be no problems with her mother's inheritance upon her grandfather's death. Her mother suffered from the negative social attitudes towards a woman living away from her husband and seeking a divorce. Seiler herself was not ostracized because her mother was divorced, but does recall being introduced to people as "Judge Ellsworth's granddaughter." Seiler often wondered who and where her father was and recognized that she was the only child in her area that did not have a father. Although she notes that growing up without a father had some disadvantages, it also was an advantage because she did not develop ill feelings towards men. She never encountered a dominating male because her grandfather was too old and mellow at the time she came to live with him. (20:28-24:03)... She did not have any contact with her father until she was eight years old, when she began to have occasional visits with him. She continued to live in her grandfather's house, and the family expected that she and her sister would go to college. There were never any idea that women should stay home. In fact, her mother was resentful because she was not able to go to college and study medicine. Seiler and her sister were the first generation of women in the family to attend college. She discusses her sister's aspirations to become a lawyer and her interest in the stock market. (24:03-27:49)... Nora Blatch came to Seiler's house during the period of 1902-1904 when she and Seiler's sister were at Cornell University together. Seiler's sister graduated from Cornell University in 1907 or 1908. In high school, Seiler led a debate on women's suffrage, and by her senior year she was a confirmed suffragist. (27:49-34:00)... After she graduated high school, Seiler traveled to Panama for a year prior to enrolling in Cornell University. In Panama she visited her grandmother and her father, who was working on the Panama Canal as an architect. When she entered Cornell, she did not know what career she wanted to pursue. She majored in modern language and took courses that interested her. Seiler's sister was very forceful in encouraging her to have a career. After she graduated from Cornell, she was engaged and planned both to work and be married. Having a career was also financially necessary because of a limited family inheritance following the division of her grandfather's estate,. Her brother became a mechanical engineer and spent most of his career working for the Atlantic Gulf and Pacific Company. (34:00-39:13)... Seiler's sister was probably the person who was most instrumental in making her aware of suffrage and women's rights. Her sister would never have allowed her to think about living without working. Seiler's sister encouraged her to focus on her career and persuaded Seiler to return to work after her daughter was born. In order to do this, Seiler moved near her mother and hired a servant to assist with her household duties. Seiler's sister was a very important role model for her; she doubts that she would have ever pursued public speaking if it were not for her sister's encouragement. At Cornell, Seiler was involved with the speech club. She recalls preparing for one of her speeches, "Crimes Against Criminals," in which she traveled to the east side of New York and the night court to observe the treatment of criminals there. (39:13-41:25)... She became engaged when she was a senior at Cornell University. <tape is turned off during a discussion of her first husband> Her first husband was a very open-minded person. He did not advocate suffrage, but was not against her pursuing it. In terms of her career, her husband was probably pleased with the fact that she was making a living because his salary was very poor at the time. Her sister was not aggressive, but was always a feminist. After Seiler gave birth to her daughter, she may not have returned to work had her sister not pressured her to do so. (41:25-44:54)... Aside from the suffrage debate that took place at Cornell University, she could not recall receiving any negative feedback about women's suffrage while she was involved with the suffrage club. Suffrage club meetings were held in the dormitory and the club did not participate in any public activities except for the debate. She graduated from Cornell in 1913 and went on a speaking tour for the Women's Political Union until autumn. She notes that if she was paid for her position it was very little and most likely only covered her expenses. She became the head of the Speaker's Bureau after her first tour and remained in that position for six months. After the speaking tour she knew that she would get involved in the Women's Political Union; however, she thought that the organization and Harriet Stanton Blatch were autocratic. She disapproved of some of Harriet Stanton Blatch's decisions and actions, feeling they were very arbitrary. end of tape *** File: sufleseiler4.mp3 (0:00-2:08)... Decisions in the Women's Political Union were made by a board of directors. Harriet Stanton Blatch was always in the office and other members of the group served on the board. The organization was a good size and there were many volunteers and speakers. She describes the soap boxes women used to give speeches. After she left the Women's Political Union, she went into the advertising field, but continued to speak on their behalf on occasion. She also spoke for the Women's Political Union during the ratification drive in New York. Note: tape was turned off briefly. (2:08-4:30)... Harriet Stanton Blatch was autocratic in the way she dealt with suffragists and in the way she ran the Woman's Political Union. Seiler mentions that she did have open conflicts with Harriet Stanton Blatch, but did not want to discuss these on tape. Seiler notes that some suffragists had a horrible reputation, such as Mrs. O.P. Belmont and Harriet Stanton Blatch. She was not aware if Carrie Chapman Catt shared that reputation; Anna Howard Shaw was a wonderful person. She suggests that the leaders of the suffrage organizations were bossy women unwilling to hear arguments counter to their point of view ; they had the reputation of being very formidable women. (4:30-8:12)... Discussion of her move to New York and her work with the Women's Political Union. After she had a falling out with the group, she left the organization and went to work for Macy's. It did not occur to her to call herself a feminist during the suffrage movement. She saw the Pankhursts and Charlotte Perkins Gilman as feminists, noting that these women were different than her because their interest was in one thing and nothing else. While English women concerned themselves with issues such as free unions, American women did not. The idea that conventional marriage was not right or fair to women was more of a phenomenon in England than in America, where women have always had more freedom in marriage. The ideas about economic dependence did not concern her and it never occurred to her that this might have been a distinguishing trait between feminists from suffragists. Note: tape was turned off briefly. (8:12-11:23)... She never joined any feminist causes other than suffrage. She recalls a meeting she had with the wife of J. Walter Thompson about coming to work for her. She notes that she would not have lasted in any other type of job or office because of the lack of responsibility and authority she would have had. She enjoyed the amount of authority she had while working for the Federal Agency, which was almost unknown among women in her field. She decided that she would not have this authority anywhere else and did not want to give up her position of power. (11:23-14:25)... Seiler defines her sister as a feminist and discusses some of the activities she was involved in related to her career in the stock market. She notes that her sister focused on the advancement of women in the world beyond the suffrage movement. When Seiler left the Women's Political Union, her sister advised her not to study stenography because in an office environment dominated by male employees, she would only perform that duty. She discusses her career in the advertising business and the birth of her daughter in 1915, after which she moved away from New York and did not return until her daughter was 2 years old. She went to work for the Federal Agency in 1917, the same week the United States declared World War I. (14:25-16:41)... After leaving New York in 1915, she lived in East Orange with her husband and baby. Her activities were very limited at this time and she was focused on raising her baby. Because of their financial situation, she had a very difficult time taking care of the household. Her decision to return to work was primarily her sister's. She knew that she could use more money and her sister shamed her into going back to work. She believed it was not possible to both work and have a family and discusses the difficulty she experienced leaving her child to go to work. (16:41-20:01)... Until the suffrage amendment was passed, she periodically spoke on behalf of the Women's Political Union. She discusses her affiliation with women's organizations both in and outside the business world. After ratification, she did not belong to any suffrage organizations or women's clubs that concentrated on the equal rights amendment. (20:01-25:24)... She was divorced in 1928 and remarried in 1929. She retired from the Federal Agency in 1945, during which time she stayed in New York and did not take part in very many activities. (Note: tape was turned off briefly.) During her first retirement she often spoke for boards of directors and even traveled to Cornell to speak about her career. In 1958, she retired again, at which time she and her husband traveled in Europe. Keywords: marital history; retirement; professional career. (25:24-31:17)... She notes that the current women's rights movement is very different from the suffrage movement. The suffrage movement was more political, while the current women's movement springs from much deeper grounds and involves estimating women's selves and what they can contribute to the world. Although women in the past believed voting was their right, women in the current women's movement are aware of a deeper inequality in society. She discusses her dismay with women's conversations today and is not surprised that men make snide remarks about women. <break in tape> She suggests that the current women's movement goes back to the roots and discusses the ideas of Charlotte Perkins Gilman. Women are very bitter towards men and do not consider the rights they have been afforded as a result of the progress men have made in many areas. This feeling of bitterness does not work towards achieving equality. However, she notes that many women involved in the suffrage movement also felt this bitterness. (31:17-36:33)... Although she has no ties with current women's organizations, she is sympathetic to their goals. Her major criticism is related to the bitterness these women feel and the lack of focus on issues relevant to their cause. She becomes impatient when women in the current women's movement bring up individual grievances and does not understand why women do not band together to work in groups. Coordination is key to women's equality and she points to the suffrage movement as evidence of how coalitions lead to action. From her point of view, the current women's movement does not make good use of the women they have at their disposal. (36:33-41:05)... She describes the types of women interested in suffrage, indicating that more often than not, it was the educated women who were attracted to the suffrage movement, but that suffrage affected all kinds of women. Seiler believes that the current climate may call for a re-examination of old institutions, including marriage. However, it is her belief that there are no other institutions that can offer the stability that marriage does. In the divorce culture in which we live children have a difficult time adapting. She expresses her preference towards people living together before marriage to test their relationship. (41:05-43:46)... Despite her criticisms of the current women's movement, she endorses their activities. She notices that there are more women around, but that their faces are not enough. It may not be that employers are discriminating against women, but that women simply lack the education and qualifications to become professionals. This is where the problem lies. Women should be encouraged to learn new technologies and disciplines to prepare themselves for the marketplace. end of tape
- SUBJECT BIO - Laura Ellsworth Seiler was active first in a suffrage club, when she attended Cornell University, and then after graduation in Harriet Stanton Blatch's group, the Women's Political Union. She stumped for suffrage in a variety of venues, including from the back seat of a chauffeured car in upstate New York, atop a horse in New York City, and from a boat on the Hudson River. After this period of heightened activity, Seiler was not involved in the suffrage movement until the final push, when she spoke on behalf of ratification. Following these years of involvement in the suffrage movement, she mainly focused on her career, and eventually became an executive in the advertising industry. Seiler's name was given to Sherna Berger Gluck by Jesse Haver Butler, another suffragist narrator. Two interviews were conducted with Laura Seiler in October 1973, when she was 82 years old and living in a suite in a retirement community in Claremont. She was very active, alert, articulate, and well spoken. She prepared herself for the interviews and thought of various stories she wanted to relate. TOPICS - Topics covered on this side of the tape include: family background; organizing work for the Women's Political Union; her relationship with and attitudes toward Harriet Stanton Blatch; marriage and career expectations;Topics covered on this side of the tape include: Seiler's assessment of Blatch and other suffrage leaders; her career in advertising; efforts to balance a career and motherhood; and her feelings about the women's liberation movement;
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