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Butler, Jesse Haver (audio interview #9 of 11)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - The purpose of this interview was to obtain information on Butler's involvement with the Fabian summer school she attended while living in England and her current involvement with childcare centers. Some of the material in this interview (both on and off tape) seems to blur fantasy, reality, and dreams, but it is obvious when this occurs. This is more a sign of her mystical beliefs rather of impaired thinking and was encountered previously her discussions of dream interpretations, reincarnation, and other spiritual beliefs. 1973-05-16
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- 2020-01-29
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- SUBJECT BIO - Jesse Haver Butler served as a lobbyist for the National Consumers League in Washington, D.C. during which time she came into contact with activists in the National Woman's Party. In 1919-1920, she toured the western states with Carrie Chapman Catt during the ratification drive for the woman's suffrage amendment. Raised on a ranch in Colorado, Butler was determined to attend Smith College. She graduated from there in 1918 and went to work for first for the Massachusetts Minimum Wage and then moved to Washington D.C. to serve as a lobbyist for the National Consumers League. In Washington, she ate lunch regularly at the National Women's Party headquarters, and came into contact with many of the women involved with the picketing of the White House. After she toured the western states with Carrie Chapman Catt during the ratification drive for the woman's suffrage amendment, she married and went with her husband to England. On her return to the US, she began a new career, teaching public speaking to women. A full life history of approximately 12 hours was recorded with Butler, between November 1972 and the spring of 1973, when she was 88 years old, in her apartment in a retirement community in LaVerne, California. She had come to public attention as a result of her participation in the 1970 celebration of women's suffrage. A woman of commanding presence, with a vigorous voice and persona, Butler was highly committed to the goals of the Feminist History Research Project and to the women's liberation movement. In the course of the several years following the interview, she regularly spoke on college campuses and to women's groups and remained very involved working on child care issues with the local chapter of NOW. TOPICS - Topics covered on this side of the tape include Butler's childhood and family relationships; birth control, pregnancy, childbirth and her hysterectomy; and the Mother's Clinics in England;
- *** File: sufjhbutler15.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-2:12)... Tape introduction (2:12-6:49)... Butler believes that in a former life she was her father's mother. In the first person, she describes the house her grandmother lived in, which was very filthy because there were no household conveniences available. There was no birth control and her grandmother gave birth to nine children without the care or guidance of a midwife. When her grandmother gave birth to her ninth child, she simply retired to her bedroom where she stayed until she died. Her paternal grandfather was a deacon in the Congregational Church in Lasalle, Illinois. He was a very intellectual and cultured man and opened the first library in the town. He was also a carpenter and one of his responsibilities was to make all of the town's coffins. (6:49-10:07)... At that time, no one knew why her grandmother was ill. It never occurred to anyone that she was simply exhausted from bearing so many children. Her father was four years old when his mother retired to her bed and never had the care of a mother. Three of his brothers died from tuberculosis and another brother was killed while working in a rock factory. Her father eventually moved to Colorado and when his mother died, he sent for his father, who moved to Colorado with all of his possessions, including live animals and fruit trees. Her grandfather planted the orchard on her father's dairy and he also started the Congregational Church in Pueblo. Butler recalls that her grandfather told her father that she was rebellious and instructed him on how to discipline her. Her father told him that he would raise his children as he saw fit. Her grandfather died when she was six years old. (10:07-11:15)... Butler's fear of childbirth was rooted in the sexual molestation she experienced as a child, which she discusses with some reluctance. [Note: Although she might very well have been molested, some of the details of her account are difficult to believe.]. (11:15-13:47)... After her mother died when she was 10 years old, her father hired a woman by the name of Maude Fitch to care for the children and the household. Her father later married this woman so that he would not have to pay for her domestic service. Butler recounts overhearing Mrs. Fritch's remark that Butler's father did not like the child. Butler became hysterical because she felt as if she had lost her father in addition to her mother. When her father found her screaming he knocked her out and when she regained consciousness she states that she forgot most of this, but it is not clear whether she forgot the molestation or overhearing Mrs. Finch. (13:47-15:57)... She recalls the girls at school discussing menstruation. She began to worry that something was wrong with her because she did not menstruate until she was 16 . As a child, she understood where babies came from and the process of menstruation. (15:57-18:08)... Prior to marrying, she was well informed on birth control methods. While living in Boston, Massachusetts, she attended all of Margaret Sanger's lectures and was interested in the movement as a social issue since she was not married at the time. When she married, she did not use any birth control because her husband was a virgin. When she arrived in England, she went to Marie Stopes' birth control clinic and received instructions on how to use a douche; however, she recalls feeling uneasy about using this method of birth control. (18:08-21:42)... She became pregnant approximately a year after she married. At the time, she and her husband were neither planning to get pregnant, nor was it an accident. She did want to have a child. In any event, this pregnancy ended in a miscarriage. When she used the douche as a form of birth control, she used a combination of water and vinegar and douched each time after sexual intercourse. When she gave birth to her son, her uterus was torn. She had a hysterectomy soon after her son was born when she was approximately 40 years old. She did not experience any depression or unhappiness as a result of the hysterectomy. She was very happy because she did not have to worry about menopause or hot flashes and she retained her ovaries. (21:42-23:40)... When she moved to England, she sought the services of a female gynecologist because she did not want to be seen by a male physician. When she went to this gynecologist she was already seven months pregnant. The doctor examined her so that she could get clearance to go on a vacation; however, the doctor did not test her urine, which would have indicated that she had albumen poisoning. While on vacation, she began experiencing severe pain in her head and sought the medical care from a male physician who refused to examine her. She reports that he told her that she would lose her sanity by morning and that the baby was already dead. He did not consider performing surgery to remove the fetus. (23:40-25:14)... The doctor referred Butler's case to a midwife who agreed to help her. At the time, Butler's legs were green and the midwife informed her that the baby had been dead for at least two weeks. Butler believes that her baby died because a male physician told her it was a mistake to get pregnant when her marriage was not established. (25:14-28:25)... The midwife who assisted Butler with her miscarriage had been trained by Florence Nightingale nurse. She used a few rolls of wrapping paper and a large bowl during her examination. After performing a pelvic examination, the midwife determined that Butler's labor was beginning. The baby was born feet first and was a girl. She gave birth to the baby in her hotel room. (28:25-30:21)... After she miscarried her first child, she returned to the female gynecologist and told her what happened. This doctor was very careless because she did not perform a pelvic examination. She later visited another doctor in London, who told her that her body was in very bad condition as a result of the miscarriage and the poisoning, but that she could get pregnant again. At the same time, she developed a case of rheumatism and traveled to Baden Baden, Germany for medical treatment and recovery. She waited two years before conceiving again. In the interim, she used the douche as a form of birth control. She did not want to get pregnant again until her body was physically ready. She attempted to get her husband to use birth control, but he did not like it and she did not trust him because he was careless. (30:21-32:16)... Butler digresses into a discussion on reincarnation. She requests that the tape be turned off after introducing a discussion on metaphysics. (32:16-34:33)... Before she became pregnant again, she visited several Mother's Clinics in England because she wanted to learn about childcare. She continued to go to these clinics after she found out she was pregnant with her daughter. The women who ran the clinics were midwives. Women visited the clinics after they married and before they got pregnant so that they could be educated on childbirth and child care. Every week, someone would give a lecture on a subject related to child care. England made child care a science. (34:33-38:59)... When she was working with the American Woman's Club in London, she inquired with the women there regarding any clinics where women could go to learn about child birth. They suggested that she visit a Dr. Pink and his assistant, Dr. White. She describes the doctor has someone with very modern ideas about child birth and breast feeding. Only one woman, out of 400 births under their care, left the nursery without successfully breast feeding her child. Dr. Pink reassured her that she would be able to have another baby without any complications. His nursery was located in a large, private home where mothers would stay for a period of time prior to giving birth so that they could become accustomed to an atmosphere of child birth. The cost of this service was comparable to what it cost to live in a boarding house. Dr. Pink gave her some instructions and she visited him for periodic examinations. She did not stay at the nursery prior to giving birth to her daughter, but did deliver her daughter in the nursery. She went to the nursery two weeks before her son was born and enjoyed the atmosphere. The mothers were expected to stay at the clinic for a month after they gave birth so that they could rest and allow their bodies to recover from the birth of a child. They were also taught how to properly breast feed their children. By the time a woman left the nursery, she was well instructed in breast feeding and her child could sleep through the night. (38:59-41:01)... After she gave birth to her daughter and returned home, her husband was ordered to go to France for the United States government. He wanted her to go with him so that she could have a holiday, but she told him that her experience at Dr. Pink's nursery was very similar to a holiday. The experience she had with childbirth is in stark contrast to what happens to women in America when they give birth. The month she stayed at Dr. Pink's clinic cost her $82. Her daughter's birth was a very long delivery and she was not conscious for the birth. She felt comfortable going to Dr. Pink because he was an expert and she had a previous bad experience with the female gynecologist during her first pregnancy. (41:01-46:22)... After she gave birth to her daughter, she visited Dr. Pink for periodic examinations. When she became pregnant with her son, she spent time in the nursery before and after the birth. However, while she was giving birth to her son, the doctors were pulled away to another birth and she was not able to deliver her son for another six hours, which complicated the birth. Her son was ultimately pulled out with forceps, which made small indentations in his head. Butler describes the process of teaching her how to breast feed the infant, and how to pump the excess milk out of her breasts for future feedings. end of tape
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