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Seiler, Laura Ellsworth (audio interview #1 of 2
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - The first of two interviews with Seiler, conducted in her apartment in the retirement community to which she had recently moved, mainly details her suffrage activities. 10/17/1973
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- 2020-01-29
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- SUBJECT BIO - Laura Ellsworth Seiler was active first in a suffrage club, when she attended Cornell University, and then after graduation in Harriet Stanton Blatch's group, the Women's Political Union. She stumped for suffrage in a variety of venues, including from the back seat of a chauffeured car in upstate New York, atop a horse in New York City, and from a boat on the Hudson River. After this period of heightened activity, Seiler was not involved in the suffrage movement until the final push, when she spoke on behalf of ratification. Following these years of involvement in the suffrage movement, she mainly focused on her career, and eventually became an executive in the advertising industry. Seiler's name was given to Sherna Berger Gluck by Jesse Haver Butler, another suffragist narrator. Two interviews were conducted with Laura Seiler in October 1973, when she was 82 years old and living in a suite in a retirement community in Claremont. She was very active, alert, articulate, and well spoken. She prepared herself for the interviews and thought of various stories she wanted to relate. TOPICS - Topics covered on this side of the tape include: family background; suffrage club at Cornell University; and organizing for Women's Political Union;Topics covered on this side of the tape include: organizing strategies of the Women's Political Union; relationships between members of the Women's Political union and other groups
- *** File: sufleseiler1.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-3:04)... Tape introduction (3:04-6:09)... Born into a New England heritage, Seiler is the youngest of three children raised in her maternal grandfather's home in Ithaca, New York. After graduating from high school at age 16, she traveled to Panama to visit her father, who was working on the Panama Canal as an estimator/architect. In 1910, she enrolled in Cornell University , graduating Phi Beta Kappa in 1913 when she was 17. (6:09-7:20)... An interest in the suffrage movement came early in her life because of her contact with her sister's close friend, Nora Blatch, Harriet Stanton Blatch's daughter. In 1908, Seiler's sister moved to New York and became the vice president of the Women's Political Union. In 1912, Seiler organized the first women's suffrage club at Cornell University and later went to New York at her sister's behest to march in the 1912 suffrage parade. Seiler describes the parade and the reaction from the public. (7:20-11:02)... While at Cornell, there were very few supporters of the suffrage movement. Following an invitation from a male classmate to debate his mother, an anti-suffragist, Seiler arranged for the head of the woman's club in Ithaca to lead the debate. Seiler describes this debate in detail and how her closing arguments persuaded members of the audience to support the cause. Although she was later reprimanded by her sister for supplying an anti-suffragist platform, she maintains that hearing both sides of the suffrage argument was the best way of gaining support for the movement. (11:02-13:46)... When she graduated from Cornell in 1913, the Women's Political Union asked her to be the head of the Speaker's Bureau and organize two counties in New York. Seiler details the preparation and responsibilities that came with organizing suffrage contingents and giving street speeches. Her mother, whom she described as a "Victorian" woman, chaperoned her on these campaigns and was very instrumental in gathering people to hear her speeches, particularly men. (13:46-15:22)... Street speeches centered on the injustice of disenfranchising women, the poor working and wage conditions for women, and child labor, and how these conditions adversely affected men. She describes an episode that took place at a foreman's residence during which she encouraged workers to unionize, which was in contrast to the foreman's earlier efforts of discouraging his workers to unionize. (15:22-18:55)... Most suffragists wanted to use the vote to change social conditions surrounding women's status, labor, and children, which was the reason for speaking on such topics. She never thought of herself as a feminist while she was fighting for suffrage. She describes her family background and personal consciousness regarding woman's rights. She notes that women involved in the women's liberation movement today have a very bitter outlook on life compared to the outlook she took at the time she was fighting for suffrage. She talks about her realization of gender roles and gender expectations, noting that she was never made to feel as if a man was better than her. (18:55-19:25)... Referring to labels, she always called herself a "suffragist" and it was the newspapers that defined women as "suffragettes," which was most likely a way of demeaning the suffrage movement. (19:25-22:02)... In comparison to other suffrage groups, the Women's Political Union was more involved in street speaking and demonstrations, while the other women's groups gathered in halls and other types venues. The Women's Political Union focused on getting the attention of ordinary people not interested in suffrage; the nature of street speaking generated a large working-class, male audience. (22:02-24:21)... As head of the Speaker's Bureau for the Women's Political Union, she describes her process for organizing women in various cities and the average age and background of these women. Many of the women she organized participated in other types of suffrage demonstrations; one woman joined Alice Paul's National Women's Party. break in tape (24:21-29:20)... When she graduated from Cornell, she began the speaking campaign with the Women's Political Union, which lasted one summer. She stayed in one city for a period of 6 weeks organizing contingents and speaking. As head of the Speakers Bureau she was not paid for her work. Most of the women who worked for the Speakers Bureau were volunteers. (break in tape) She is hesitant to speak about her relationship with Harriet Stanton Blatch, with whom she did not always agree. When she left the Women's Political Union she decided to pursue a career in advertising copy. In 1914, after interviewing with several agencies, she went to work for Macy's writing advertising copy. (29:20-31:30)... Although there was no feeling of competition between the other suffrage groups, the groups did not always agree on tactics. The Women's Political Union was much closer to English suffragists in tactics and strategy. The other suffrage groups thought that women in England were outrageous in their tactics. Harriet Stanton Blatch believed that political pressure would result in progress and she aligned with the Pankhurst sisters. The English suffragists were even more radical than American suffragists. The nearest approach to English radicalism was Alice Paul's hunger strikes, which in Seiler's opinion was the reason why the president decided to send the suffrage amendment to congress. (31:30-33:04)... Suffragists in the Women's Political Union were a mixture of conservatives and radicals. Many women reacted with skepticism over Alice Paul's tactics and thought she might have been going too far, while others sympathized with her strategies. Harriet Stanton Blatch was responsible for bringing English radicalism to the Women's Political Union, but Alice Paul went beyond what Harriet Stanton Blatch envisioned. Seiler does not recall their being any coordination between the Women's Political Union and the other suffrage groups, stating that each group had different tactics and strategies. (33:04-35:57)... Aside from suffrage, the Women's Political Union was also concerned with child labor, labor abuses, and poor working conditions. She discusses a report she completed for the Hobo Convention, which Eugene V. Debs was supposed to attend but was in jail. Bill Haywood attended the convention. She also mentions an incident when she visited the woman's night court where women's rights were completely disregarded; women were viewed as second-class citizens. (35:57-38:37)... There was coordination between labor groups and suffrage groups e.g. Florence Kelley was on the board of the Women's Political Union. Seiler describes an incident in which Kelley expressed her dissatisfaction with a pamphlet Seiler wrote on women's discrimination. Seiler recalls many women speaking on behalf of the Women's Political Union. For example, she recalled that Dr. Anna Howard Shaw spoke, but was not very active in the group. (38:37-41:05)... She discusses the coordination of the Women's Speaker's Bureau and the venues at which they spoke, and recalls an occasion when she traveled to a small town and stayed with a minister, whose wife was a suffrage sympathizer. (41:05-46:15)... When she moved to New York to coordinate the Speaker's Bureau, she was married. She discusses her husband's feelings toward her activities. She recalls publicity campaigns in which she took; some were rather "foolish" exhibitions that often received negative feedback from the public and in the newspapers. end of tape *** File: sufleseiler2.mp3 (0:00-0:32)... There were approximately 100 men who marched in the 1912 suffrage parade. Her husband was neither an anti-suffragist, nor a suffragist, but was simply indifferent to the cause. break in tape (0:32-2:25)... During the suffrage movement, several slogans were used to get people's attention. There also were women reporters who helped suffragists get publicity. Harriet Stanton Blatch thought that suffrage should be kept in front of the public at every moment so that it was constantly on their minds. Seiler explains the process of soap box speeches: there were always two women who spoke together on a campaign. At the time, it was very unusual for women to speak on the street. (2:25-6:23)... While working at Macy's, she occasionally spoke on suffrage on behalf of the Women's Political Union, but was no longer the head of the Speaker's Bureau. After working for Macy's for six months, she found out she was pregnant and left the business. However, when her daughter was 2 years old, her sister persuaded her to return to work. Seiler moved across the hall from her mother so that she could care for her daughter while she was working. Because of their poor financial situation, her husband did not have any problems with her working outside of the home. After searching for a position that would allow her to take the afternoons off so that she could spend time with her daughter, she went to work for an advertising agency known as the Federal Agency, where she worked for 30 years. This agency allowed her to work until 3:00 p.m. until World War II, when a shortage of labor required her to work various hours. (6:23-9:12)... When she went to work for the Federal Agency, she was the only woman employed as a copywriter. She quickly advanced to an account executive and then became the vice president of the company. She describes her position of power at the agency and how she was the only woman in her peer group who experienced that kind of responsibility and leadership role. Eventually, other women came to work in both her department and others throughout the company. (9:12-12:03)... During the ratification drive in New York, she took 2 weeks off work to speak on suffrage. She describes the negative attitudes towards women the day after the suffrage amendment was nullified in New York. She recalls that men openly jeered women. Although no one in her office knew the extent to which she was involved in the suffrage movement, some men in her office made disparaging remarks towards her after the ratification drive. (12:03-13:24)... Her activism in the Women's Political Union was minimal after 1914, and the limited connection she did have was because of her sister's involvement with the group. She discusses her sister career on Wall Street and the fact that she maintained her clientele until she was 84. (break in tape) [Seiler notes that her sister would probably not be useful for an interview because of her poor memory] (13:24-17:58)... When Alice Paul began her campaign in Washington, D.C., Seiler did not disapprove; she understood the reasons for Alice Paul's tactics, and felt they were valuable for the movement. The treatment women in the National Women's Party received as a result of their picketing outraged women. Seiler was skeptical about many beliefs espoused by English suffragists, such as free love, the discouraging of marriage and children, and hyphenated names. She notes that American women did not propagandize about free love ideals to the extent that English women did. She is conservative and believes that family is integral to society. Her sister was on the fringe of what was the feminist movement at that time and Seiler recalls her sister introducing her to a few unmarried women from Greenwich Village who were living with men. Although her sister was a feminist early in her life, she reversed her beliefs on feminism towards the middle of her life. Today, Seiler would not even describe her sister as a liberal. (17:58-20:23)... After the ratification drive in New York, Seiler did not involve herself with suffrage or with Alice Paul's fight for an equal rights amendment. She could not recall if the Women's Political Union was disbanded after the suffrage amendment was passed, and believes that there would not have been anything for the group to do after suffrage was won. She discusses her relationship with men and fellow coworkers throughout her life, and their attitude towards women's suffrage. Many people believed that once women got the vote, they could have anything they wanted. It never occurred to people that women's coordination would dissolve after they got the vote. After 1925, there was no women's bloc. (20:23-23:44)... Margaret Sanger was Seiler's sister's close friend. Seiler discusses Margaret Sanger's birth control clinics. Although many women in the Women's Political Union were very interested in Margaret Sanger's movement, they did not want to endorse the movement because it was outside their scope of activities. However, there were many women in the Women's Political Union who supported the birth control movement. (Break in tape.) She describes the demographics of those working for suffrage, indicating that women from many different backgrounds and ideologies worked together towards suffrage. (23:44-25:00)... There was a sisterhood within the Women's Political Union, but there were many women outside of the organization who disapproved of suffrage. For those in the movement, there was cooperation and admiration for those who worked toward suffrage. She does not recall personally knowing any ardent anti-suffragists in her circle of friends, but notes that some women she socialized with were indifferent and anticipated that women would end up voting similar to their husbands or fathers, which was what occurred. (25:00-27:46)... While giving suffrage speeches, she does not recall using the moral superiority argument as a justification for women's right to vote. She used the argument that there were issues that men were unfit to judge and that women should have a larger voice in certain issues affected by politics. She describes a speech she gave during which she highlighted how all of the headlines in the newspaper related to women's issues. It would have been difficult to sustain a moral superiority argument within the Women's Political Union because there was an ultra radical element within the group itself. She recalls a conversation between herself and one of her sister's friends regarding the fact that society was led by a masculine single standard. (27:46-29:02)... The Women's Political Union sought to use tactics that would directly convince men of women's right to suffrage, and persuade the men with whom suffragists socialized. Seiler's purpose in speaking was to reach as many people as possible. There was not a uniform policy to the speaking campaigns, as there was too much diversity among the women in the Women's Political Union. Seiler was concerned with training women rather than telling them what to argue during the speeches. She trained them to speak more effectively and assigned them to certain areas. (29:02-31:50)... She discusses her career and her final retirement from the advertising business in 1958. After traveling around the country and abroad, she settled in California in 1961. (31:50-35:34)... She summarizes her activism and discusses the initiation of the suffrage club at Cornell University. At the time she enrolled in Cornell University in 1910, there were 400 women attending the university. She posted a notice at the university and approximately 75 women joined the suffrage club. Their activities consisted of talking about suffrage and there was no connection between the suffrage club at Cornell University and local women's organizations in Ithaca. She does not recall any women's groups in Ithaca at that time that specifically concentrated on women's suffrage and notes that the women's groups in the city were completely separate from the university. (35:34-38:55)... Harriet Stanton Blatch centered her efforts around New York city and Seiler's job as head of the Speaker's Bureau was to organize the outlying western counties. The towns she organized were typically small towns with both agricultural and manufacturing interests. The purpose of leaving behind a chapter of the Women's Political Union was to reach the middle class who would then do the work in the city. However, she recalls that the names on her list of sympathizers were mainly from the upper and upper-middle classes. Her audiences consisted of mainly working class people because they populated the streets more than any other class. Seiler's visits were called "organizing trips," during which she would try and reach the leaders in the town who would then conduct the local organizational work for the Women's Political Union. The organizing trips were usually successful in leaving behind a nucleus, from which the Women's Political Union would gather information. (38:55-42:40)... A purple, green and white banner was placed on the rear of the car she traveled in when she visited a city: white stood for purity, green for courage, and purple for justice. There were several "votes for women" plaques and banners in the Women's Political Union office that were used during demonstrations. The Women's Political Union also had several pieces of literature on why women should win suffrage. Suffragists spoke at several different venues. She recalls women would travel on riverboats up the Hudson River to Albany and there were booths at county fairs where suffragists would hand out literature and give speeches. She recalls a publicity trip she was involved in on a motorboat. On this occasion, there were no banners, but women yelled "votes for women" using megaphones. She describes the feedback and harassment she received from men during this campaign. end of tape
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