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Glenn, Elinor (audio interview #2 of 2)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This second of two interviews with Elinor Glenn was again recorded sitting at the dining room table in her comfortable home in North Hollywood. This longer interview continues to focus on Glenn's union activities, with few personal biographical details. 2/17/1986
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- 2020-09-21
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- *** File: lheglenn3.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-2:27)... Glenn was president of the National Federation of Federal Employees when it merged with several independent municipal unions in 1946, this became the United Public Workers (UPW). She was elected president of UPW, Local 246 and remained in that position until she became an organizer-representative in the UPW. S details the merger that created UPW and also the national merger in the mid-forties with AFSCME (American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees) and three or four CIO unions. At that time, the membership stood at approximately 3,000. (2:27-5:19)... Glenn clarifies how the "no strike clause" (during WWII) was interpreted by the UPW and the small CIO unions with national contracts. [The union was covered by Taft-Hartley and fought against its effect.*] *added by narrator during her review of summaries (5:19-8:30)... Glenn discusses the procedures initiated by the UPW in 1947 to obtain dues check off. This process enabled union organizers to bring more people into the union; it also meant that the unions could focus on organizing and servicing the membership instead of on dues collection. Glenn digresses to discuss the 1950 split in the CIO when the "militant, progressive unions were evicted or excommunicated." The UPW was one of the unions expelled because CIO leaders equated their support for Henry Wallace with leftist activities. Since the split occurred on a national level, the UPW continued its affiliation with the local CIO Council. (8:30-13:01)... When the UPW was expelled from the national CIO, a national executive board meeting was held on the East Coast. The leadership expressed divergent views on the future of the union with Bob Weinstein favoring a conditional merger with AFSCME while Jack Beagle suggesting that the union remain independent. Between 1950-53, the California Locals of the UPW remained independent. This was an unstable period because they did not have check-off status and their union dues and income decreased dramatically. The state and school employees left the UPW and organized separate unions. Glenn and Sidney Moore were the only staff members in Local 246 during this period. She handled county workers and he handled city workers. (13:01-16:02)... The UPW continued to draw support and assistance from the local CIO Council after it was expelled from the national CIO. During the merger, an AFL union attempted to raid General Hospital and bring UPW members into its union. One of the organizers for this union was George Hardy. The hospital workers remained loyal to the UPW even though many of them were not paying dues, and Glenn and Sidney Moore continued to represent them regardless of their standing with the union. She was the organizer-representative of county workers at Harbor, Long Beach and Rancho Los Amigos hospitals as well as General Hospital. (16:02-20:31)... During the three year period that the UPW operated independently, AFSCME proposed a merger. UPW rejected the idea because the membership base in AFSCME was mainly of Anglo, white-collar workers while the UPW members were primarily Black. Additionally, Glenn and Sidney Moore were hesitant about a merger because AFSCME claimed they would fire all of their existing executives and allow Glenn and Moore to dominate the council and executive board of the local. They both felt that this was an immoral thing to do and felt they would be setting themselves up for AFSCME to do the same thing to them in the future. (20:31-26:34)... When Glenn was asked to meet with George Hardy to discuss a possible merger with the AFL Building Services Employees International Union (identified later as Local 347), she was hesitant because of his previous attempts to raid the general hospital. She also felt that it catered only to custodians while she was in the process of organizing attendants, vocational nurses and laboratory technicians. She describes the meeting that took place with Hardy and the conditions that were laid out when the two unions merged. The mood was celebratory when they merged because it created a broad base of support among city and county hospital workers regardless of race. The UPW also gained formal recognition through its affiliation with the AFL Building Services Union. (26:34-28:12)... Glenn describes the structure of the executive committee after the UPW merged with the AFL Building Services Union. The county workers under the UPW were dominated by women and the city workers were predominantly men in blue-collar positions. The merger represented an integration of employees based on jobs. End of tape. *** File: lheglenn4.mp3 (0:02-1:13)... Glenn continues to discuss the merger between UPW and the AFL Building Services, and also refers to organizing workers at Department of Social Services. Within two months of the merger, their membership base increased and incorporated an entire new group of workers. (1:13-5:01)... Before the merger with the Building Services Employyes International Union, Glenn's in the UPW was senior business agent of county employees and Sidney Moore was the senior business agent for city employees. When their general manager, Sam Berland, left the UPW in 1950, Glenn and Moore ran the union as senior business agents. The Building Services Union Local 347 had a general manager and Glenn and Moore deferred to him when the two unions merged in 1953. When new organizers were hired, they were placed under Glenn's and Moore's supervision. A month after the merger, she married and became pregnant. When she was on maternity leave, the general manager was voted out and Al Charleton was elected. (5:01-8:44)... After the UPW was expelled from the national CIO in 1950, the Local moved out of the CIO Council headquarters and into a new location in 1951, but continued to affiliate with the Los Angeles CIO Council and its members. Glenn knew very few people from the AFL and felt awkward about a merger with the Building Services Union/AFL. In turn, the AFL had a negative view of her Local because they thought of them as "a bunch of lefties" and disapproved of their public demonstrations. Although she was not thrilled to be affiliated with the AFL, she soon recognized that the organizers were just as motivated and dedicated as the organizers in her Local. Over time, she learned to respect the autonomy of their Locals and their loyalty to their unions [as shown by Local 399, George Hardy's Local. Just like UPW organizers, they worked had, starting early in the morning and leaving their offices late at night*]. * added by narrator in her review of summaries (8:44-11:52)... Glenn also organized building tradesmen at the hospitals when she was organizing other hospital workers. She met with them in the cafeteria, and spoke with them in their changing room, which was a little uncomfortable for her because it was decorated with posters of naked women. Even though these men were members of the AFL Building Trades Union, many of them joined Glenn's local because they saw her on a regular basis and respected the way she handle grievances and improved the working conditions of hospital staff. She notes that as a result of her Local's efforts: "we began to have a better relationship with the AFL locals and I gained a new respect for them." (11:52-16:56)... Approximately a year after the AFL-UPW merger, a photograph of Glenn and her husband was featured in the Citizen. George Hardy was called to the west coast for a meeting in an attempt to pressure him to sever the affiliation with Glenn and the UPW because AFL officials thought they were too radical. She describes the conversation she had with Hardy regarding this matter and how the situation was resolved. Bassett was replaced by Sig Arowitz after the AFL-CIO merger. She notes that it became "a different kind of labor movement because he brought militancy and understanding of the social scene and the desire to make change." [In her review of the summaries, Glenn added: "Hardy was a prime organizer - the best in the west. He gave respect to other union organizers and to the abilities of women and other ethnic groups."] (16:56-18:21)... Before the 1953 merger with the AFL, Glenn had successfully organized a large portion of healthcare employees ranging from laboratory workers to hospital custodians. (18:21-24:01)... Glenn talks about her collaboration with Major West and his sister, Leona Crane, in their efforts to improve working conditions in the laundry facility at General Hospital. Crane was a spiritual person who was often Glenn's conscience in making decisions. The three of them met with the hospital director, Leroy Bruce, to discuss their grievances regarding racial and job discrimination in the laundry facility. [In reviewing the summary, Glenn added: "The progress was spectacular. We got support from Supervisor Hahn."] (24:01-26:25)... The initial grievances in the laundry facility revolved around favoritism, race discrimination, and corruption. Once headway was made on these issues, Glenn began to concentrate on improving the equipment and working condition in the laundry facility. These grievances were easier to resolve successfully after she gained Board of Supervisor Kenneth Hahn's support following his tour of the facility. Organizing the laundry workers built up the membership base among hospital workers because they knew about the problems in the laundry facility. The motto of the UPW was "An injury to one was an injury to all." End of tape. *** File: lheglenn5.mp3 (0:00-2:38)... Glenn discusses UPW's collaboration with community and religious groups, the Urban League and the NAACP in organizing hospital workers. The UPW also was active in the drive initiated by Paul Robeson to raise funds for the Negro College Fund. She also recalls working with the pastor of the Second Baptist Church and Clayton Russell of the Negro Victory Committee. (2:38-7:44)... The first groups Glenn organized when she went to LA County General Hospital were the custodians and the social workers. She then moved on to hospital attendants, who were the largest group and the core. Glenn discusses the working conditions and wage standards for hospital attendants and the grievances she handled for them. She notes that the ambulance drivers also played a role in what became Local 434. (7:44-11:15)... Glenn describes her organizing tactic of meeting with employees in the hospital cafeteria or in their changing areas to listen to their problems and discuss unionism. She advised other organizers not to promise employees anything except the "knowledge and skills to protect themselves" so that they could put up a good fight to get what they wanted. It was important to Glenn that she establish a base of leadership among the workers she organized so that they could continue. [In reviewing the summary, Glenn added: "By the referrals to LA Trade Tech College, Catholic Training School, UCLA and LA City College, our interested members got more knowledge and skills and became leaders in our field and others."] (11:15-16:52)... Glenn discusses the key grievances of hospital attendants and how she worked to improve their working conditions and job classifications. Addressing a grievance on behalf of hospital attendants, she first went to the nursing supervisor and continued up the supervisory ladder until she got results. When these channels failed to bring about an amicable solution, the grievance proceedings progressed to hospital administrators and, ultimately, the Board of Supervisors. Through these efforts, Glenn and the UPW developed a good reputation and were asked to negotiate resolution of grievances on behalf of workers in different unions. (16:52-19:07)... There was no conflict of interest in representing the hospital attendants and vocational nurses because she filed grievances with nursing supervisors, not the vocational nurses. Glenn reiterates that the major problems of hospital attendants involved working conditions, disrespect by the nursing staff, and sex and race discrimination. (19:07-21:14)... When the UPW merged with the AFL, Glenn's Local became BSEIU, 347. She continued to work as a senior representative with several county organizer-representatives under her supervision. The city organizer-representatives were supervised by Sidney Moore. She recalls that when Al Charleton was elected president of the Local, George Hardy visited her and told her that she was responsible for running the union. She notes: "I was leading from second base. That was the description that people had of me." (21:14-30:34)... Glenn details the process of reviewing salary requests with the Board of Supervisors between 1946-70 prior to the implementation of collective bargaining. A research committee of he Local developed studies on job classifications and prevailing wages among county, city, and housing authority workers. These studies helped to initiate discussions on sick leave, vacation pay, pensions, and retirement. Glenn describes the battle between her Local and the Employees Association regarding wages for kitchen and laundry workers. End of tape. *** File: lheglenn6.mp3 (0:00-2:56)... Glenn discusses the struggle with the Employees Association in negotiating an appropriate wage standard for kitchen and laundry workers. Initially, she discussed wage issues with personnel officers and they made recommendations to the Board of Supervisors. When these recommendations did not satisfy the rank and file, they went to the Board of Supervisors and challenged these wage recommendations, a process she calls "collective begging." (2:56-8:42)... In 1953, the issues brought before the Board of Supervisors expanded to include holidays and benefits. The employees at the Department of Water and Power had the best fringe benefits, salaries, and working conditions because of the nature of their work and their infrastructure projects. The county employees, on the other hand, had the worst working conditions, wages, and benefits. Glenn and her Local publicized these differences when arguing for better conditions for county employees. In an aside, she references her efforts to resolve employee and patient issues resulting from split-shift policies at Olive View and Rancho Los Amigos hospitals. (8:42-12:25)... Prior to the strike at LA County General Hospital, there were several sick outs, rolling sick outs, and lunchtime demonstrations. As an aside, Glenn refers to the time that her local saved the Board of supervisors millions of dollars when it brought to their attention the inefficient paperwork policies with regard to Medicare payments. (12:25-18:29)... Glenn discusses the $40 flat fee proposal that the union presented to the board of supervisors in 1958, which they coined the "Pope John Formula." The goal of this proposal, which they did not win, was to equalize wages between higher and lower paid employees. She equates this struggle with the current issue of gender discrimination. (18:29-20:18)... In the early 1960s, in anticipation of funds to be made available by the Department of Labor, the union and the Department of Labor signed a "Memorandum of Understanding" to retrain and upgrade women and minorities (20:18-22:59)... In 1958, as a result of the union calling attention to the working conditions of the nursing staff, the number of nursing personnel was increased. Even though the union did not represent professional employees, except for pharmacists and social workers, Glenn and her local felt that improving their working conditions would, in turn, result in better patient care. (22:59-25:06)... Note: there is an interruption in this segment when Glenn pauses to answer the telephone. After the 1953 AFL-UPW merger, they began to have more success in organizing employees and resolving grievances. These efforts were helped by an increase in union staff and the development of a research department. In addition, hospital administrators and managers began to realize that the union was recognized and supported by the Board of Supervisors moreo than they were. Union representatives also increased their presence at budgetary hearings in order to preserve health services and negotiate salary increases for its members. (25:06-28:01)... Asked to trace her successes up to 1962, Glenn points to the advances the union made in increasing benefits like sick and vacation pay, as well as bereavement policies. The business agents also represented workers on workplace injuries prior to the Industrial Accident Commission assuming these responsibilities. When a labor attorney advised them that they could represent their members better by hiring an in-house attorney, the union began managing these cases through their lawyer rather than the business agents. Two years later, the union succeeded in getting $1 million in benefits for employees injured on the job. (28:01-30:01)... When workers demonstrated, it was usually over a specific issue that affected everyone in the hospital. These protests commonly revolved around hospital closures, hospital cuts, layoffs, and wages. The community usually was supportive when the hospital employees picketed outside the hospital. End of tape.
- SUBJECT BIO - Elinor Marshall Glenn was a key organizer of public employees in Los Angeles, eventually becoming a leader of Service Employees International Union (SEIU) in Los Angeles. Born in Brooklyn, the third of four children, Glenn cut her eye teeth as an activist while a student at NYU, organizing a protest against one of her professors. After graduation, she taught English and remedial reading in a WPA-funded program, and became the vice-president of her WPA Teacher's Union Local. At the same time, she pursued her interest in acting, working in WPA theater projects. Pursuing her acting aspirations, Glenn moved to Los Angeles with her first husband in 1944. To earn money, she worked with the Office of Price Administration (OPA), and moved up the ranks of the National Federation of Federal Employees Local from steward to chief steward. When the Local merged with several state, city, and county locals, she was elected president of UPW (United Public Workers), Local 246, a position she held until 1945-6, when she began to work as an organizer-representative at Rancho Los Amigos Hospital. Continuing to pursue her interest in acting, Glenn joined an acting troupe that performed in union halls. This experience made her realize that "she was on the wrong side of the footlights," and she began her union career in earnest. After successfully organizing and handling grievances at Rancho Los Amigos Hospital, she began to organize workers at the other Los Angeles County hospitals. Over the years, she organized workers at Harbor General, LA County General and Olive View Hospitals. The 1953 merger with SEIU Local 347 set the SEIU on a path to become a major West Coast union power. Later Glenn obtained a charter for Local 434, and eventually became the General Manager of that Local. As a leader of 434, she helped forge major gains for county workers, including a collective bargaining ordinance in 1969. Glenn was elected to the SEIU International Executive Board in 1972; and in 1974, she became one of the founders of the Coalition of Labor Union Women (CLUW). Although she retired in 1979, she remained active in the union, and was still active in 2003, when we met again. Seventeen years after our original 1986 interviews, I contacted Glenn to discuss launching her oral history on the VOAHA site. During our visits, she began to reveal more details of her personal biography (which helped to flesh out this biographical sketch) and she was more inclined to record these. Plans are in the works to record additional interviews with her, covering both her earlier life and her SEIU work since the 1960s (which was the end point of the original 1986 interviews.) Note: The UCLA Oral History Program conducted an oral history with Glenn in recent years and produced a transcript, which she recently reviewed. TOPICS - 1946 merger of National Federation of Federal Employees with municipal locals; formation of UPW; "no-strike clause;" merger of AFSCME and local unions with CIO; dues check off; red-baiting in CIO; status of UPW as independent union, 1950-53; proposed AFSCME merger; George Hardy and AFL organizing raid at LACoGH; and merger with AFL Building Services International Union, Local 347;merger with AFL Building Services Union Local 347; organizing DPSS; leadership structure in UPW; senior business agent, UPW, 1950-53; marriage; maternity leave; attitude towards AFL; George Hardy; working conditions and grievances in the laundry facility at LACoGH; and relationship with Kenneth Hahn;collaboration between UPW and Black community; organizing hospital attendants; working conditions and grievances; role of ambulance drivers in SEIU, Local 434; organizing tactics; AFL-UPW merger and leadership role in Local 347; George Hardy; negotiating salary and wage increases with the Board of Supervisors; UPW research committee; and struggle between UPW and Employees Association over wages;struggle with Employees Association over wages; procedures for negotiating salary and wage increases with Board of Supervisors; improvement of benefits in 1953; wages and working conditions of city and county employees; grievances at Olive View and Rancho Los Amigos Hospitals; flat rate wage proposal, 1958; 1958 proposal to increase nursing staff; collaborating with Department of Labor to create an MOU; handling industrial accident cases; and hospital demonstrations;
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