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Butler, Jesse Haver (audio interview #2 of 11)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the second interview with Jesse Haver Butler, which was recorded in her apartment in the retirement community where she was residing. This interview is detailed and covers her years in Pueblo, Colorado and her family background. 1972-11-27
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- 2020-01-28
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- *** File: sufjhbutler3.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-4:22)... Note: after the tape introduction, the segment begins with a discussion of what will be covered in the interview. (4:22-11:48)... Her parents came from a pioneer background. Her mother's father graduated from Berlin University and was trained as a Lutheran minister in Germany. He left Germany to work as a missionary in the United States where he christianized Indians. After settling in Nebraska, he founded all of the Lutheran churches and schools, some of which are still in existence today. Butler's maternal grandmother died while she was giving birth to her sixth child. Butler's grandfather placed some of his children with neighboring families, while her mother and aunt were placed in an orphanage. Her mother was raped while living in this orphanage. Butler's mother later moved to Pueblo, Colorado where she worked as a maid and went to high school. She died when she was 32 years old. Butler's parents met in Pueblo, Colorado. Her father was the first dairyman in Colorado, establishing the first dairy in Pueblo. Her parents both became interested in socialism and one of their favorite books was Looking Backward by Edward Bellamy. Before she was married, Butler's mother returned to Nebraska to visit her family. While visiting her relatives, she organized a meeting at one of her father's churches and gave a speech on socialism. Although the community attended the meeting, they all disapproved of her public activism and felt sorry for her future husband for wanting to marry such a peculiar person. (11:48-13:34)... When the campaign for woman's suffrage reached Colorado, Butler's mother toured the Pueblo Valley advocating suffrage. Susan B. Anthony was also touring Colorado during this time. She was able to gain a lot of support in mining towns where the ratio of men to women was very high. When she visited these towns the men were very appreciative for her presence and immediately supported suffrage. Although she never met Susan B. Anthony, Butler's mother carried on the suffrage work in the valley where she lived. In 1893, Colorado granted women the right to vote. (13:34-16:09)... Many of the women in Pueblo died early and there were very few families in which the children were brought up by their mother. At the time, there were no physicians, sinks, cars, or telephones. When Butler was born, her father assisted her mother with the birth because there were no doctors in the town where they lived. Her mother was interested in modern nutrition and read a lot of books by a Dr. Jackson who promulgated strange dietary ideas that did not coincide with ranch life. For instance, one of his ideas was for people to go without supper. This was very hard on her family and her father's ranch hands because of the long stretch of time between meals. Butler and her brother did not suffer, however, because they often stole food from neighboring farms. (16:09-20:07)... Her father was very ingenious and developed a modern dairy farm that included 100 cows and several ranch hands. He supplied her with a pony and a wagon that she and her brother rode to school, which was two miles from their ranch. When she damaged the wagon, her father put her to work at a neighboring farm picking peas so that she could pay for the repairs. She also earned extra money by gathering bones from cattle that died on the prairie. (20:07-23:56)... She did not assist her father with his dairy. In fact, none of the children were allowed to go into the barn and she believed that she was too superior to milk a cow. Her father hired several men to work at the dairy, all of whom were fed by Butler's mother. Butler was the oldest of four children. When she was 10 years old, the fourth child died in an irrigating ditch and her mother died four days later. Before she died, she told Butler that she was a very bright child and to get an education. Butler was surprised by this because her mother never spoke to her as if she was an intelligent person. Her household duties consisted of baby sitting the other children. Her mother never asked for her help in the kitchen. (23:56-26:06)... When she was in 4th grade ,she invited her school mates to her farm for a picnic. Afterwards, the children went to the river and she persuaded them to take their clothes off and go swimming. When the children told their parents of these events, they were never allowed to return to Butler's farm because they believed her behavior was inappropriate. (26:06-32:38)... When her mother died, Butler became unmanageable. Her father hired a housekeeper, Maude Fitch, who was able to manage Butler during those difficult times. Her father later married this woman. Her father sold his dairy when she was 14 years old and ventured into the cattle raising business. He owned several thousand acres of land. Because his ranch was far from her school, he placed her with a family where she lived and helped with the housework. She was not a good housekeeper, however, because her mother never trained her for these responsibilities. The school she attended when she was a child was a public school for boys and girls. When she was a sophomore in high school, she became fascinated with her geometry teacher, whom she considered a very modern woman. Up to that point, Butler's knowledge of women was limited to Mexican housewives and ranch women dressed in calico dresses. She was struck by this teacher because of her beauty and modern attire. This teacher later became instrumental in Butler's life by helping her get into Smith College. (32:38-34:04)... When she was in high school, her father sold his cattle ranch and moved to the edge of Pueblo, Colorado and opened a real estate business in the city. She moved back home with her father after boarding with a family for two years. Her home was near the city and she was able to ride her bicycle to school. (34:04-37:59)... When she inquired about women's colleges, her teacher told her that Smith, Vassar, and Wellesley were all very good colleges for women. She did not want to attend a college with men because she believed they would distract her from her studies. After she decided she wanted to attend Smith College, she sent the school $10 and enrolled at the age of 14. For the next two years she focused on her school work and was able to improve her grades. Her principal placed her on the graduation program, at which time she recited VanDyke's essay, "The Lost Word." (37:59-39:57)... Her home life was very unpredictable because of her stepmother's illness and irrational behavior. Butler made arrangements with a dressmaker to make a dress for her graduation. However, this appointment fell on the same day that she was supposed to clean the house. When she left the house, her stepmother told her that she would not be welcomed back into the home if she did not complete her housework. Butler decided that it was time for her to go and she moved into a friend's boarding house for $16 a week. She was exhausted as a result of her home and school responsibilities and spent a great deal of time resting while living at this boarding house. (39:57-42:56)... While living in the boarding house, she developed an ulcer in her eye. At the time there were no eye doctors living in the city. By chance, however, an eye doctor from Philadelphia moved to Pueblo and cared for her eye every morning until it was cured. Her stepmother committed suicide three weeks before Butler was to leave for Smith College. Butler moved back home and was told by the minister of her church that it was her duty to stay home and care for her family. Butler's teacher contacted her father and told him that if he did not let her go away to college, she would be dead within a year. Three weeks later, she left for Smith College. (42:56-45:22)... Her fourth cousin came to visit her before she was to leave for college. Butler believes it was a miracle that her cousin agreed to stay with her father and become his housekeeper, making her move to Smith College a much easier transition. end of tape *** File: sufjhbutler4.mp3 (0:00-2:37)... Her father was amused by the fact that while other women wanted to get married and have children, his daughter wanted to become educated and go to college. Butler is the only person in her family who has a college education. Her brother was a not scholar and did not pursue an education. He settled in Boone, Colorado, where he married a wealthy woman and built a ranch. Butler's younger sister was very beautiful and endowed with domestic qualities. She wanted to become a musician and enrolled in a school in Chicago. However, her career as a musician was unsuccessful. She later decided that she wanted to become a nurse, at which time Butler sent her money and she moved to Boston, Massachusetts and attended a nursing school. Butler's sister ultimately met a Harvard man, who she later married. (2:37-4:06)... There was only one other woman in Pueblo, Colorado who went to college, and Butler was the only woman in town who attended Smith College. One day when she was walking in town with her father, they met a friend who inquired about her Smith College education, at which time her father expressed his pride and happiness with his daughter's pursuits. Her life changed when she moved to New England. The atmosphere was very different than pioneer life and she was exposed to a new culture in America. (4:06-7:31)... Her course of study while at Smith College included psychology, philosophy, ethics, aesthetics, logic, and history. She also wanted to learn how to write, but the writing course she took emphasized poetry and creative writing, which did not interest her. She also wanted to take a speech course; however, the only classes available were for people with speech impediments or enunciation difficulties. She spent time in the library studying and reading books by Bernard Shaw and H.G Wells. She did not date for fear this would distract her from her studies. Her first date occurred during her junior year when she went to the prom with Horace Lyon of Lyon's Tooth Powder. This boy was very rich and later wanted to marry her, but she was focused on her education and did not want to be married at the time. (7:31-11:53)... She was disappointed by the teachers at Smith College because they did not seem very interested in their students. She wanted a teacher to help her devise a plan for the rest of her life. Her fellow students often discussed how they were going to coordinate their professional and intellectual pursuits with marriage and a family. There were no female teachers at Smith College who were managing this themselves, nor were they interested in children and marriage; therefore, there was very little advice available on the subject. In some ways, Smith College was not a very healthy environment. There was a lot of "homosexual activity" occurring at the time and there were no departments at the school that helped students deal with their personal problems. Many students suffered over the loss of a fellow classmate, whose murder they witnessed on campus. The circumstances of this event are explained in detail by Butler. (11:53-13:46)... Most of the women faculty at Smith College were not married. She wanted to pursue a career and be married with a family, but she did not know how to coordinate the two. She knew that in marriage, there were a lot of domestic duties and she did not know how she would manage this along with her career. When she moved to London she figured out how to coordinate these aspects of her lives because so many women there had domestic help and a governess to care for their children. Most of the women at Smith College were not as conscious of the lack of guidance related to marriage, family, and a career. Butler was more concerned about this because her mother requested that she become educated and did not teach her how to be domestically responsible. (13:46-17:01)... Despite her experiences at Smith College, she believes that she was blessed with sound guidance throughout her life. When she was in high school she was friends with a girl whose father was from England. He believed that women should pursue what they wanted. He suggested that she spend her summers learning shorthand typewriting so that she could pursue a career other than teaching after she graduated from Smith College. She believes that English people are more liberal regarding women than Americans. In particular, American pioneers are bound by the belief that women should be in the home. The English, however, have alternative ways of running a household and are not reliant on the wife and mother taking sole responsibility for the home. (17:01-19:01)... During her junior year at Smith College, she decided to spend her summer learning shorthand typewriting rather than take the place of her father's household worker. She attended a school in Pueblo, Colorado and returned the next summer to take more classes. Her friends at Smith College did not approve of her activities because they did not believe that Smith girls should become secretaries. She worked at her father's office, completing shorthand assignments for lawyers working in the building. There were no other typists working in the building at that time and she made a good living doing this work. (19:01-21:57)... When she returned to Smith College for a reunion, she went to an employment agency for Smith graduates seeking careers outside of teaching, which was owned by a Smith English teacher. This woman offered Butler a job as the assistant to the head of the Textbook Department at MacMillan Publishing in New York. Butler traveled to New York and was given her own secretary and file clerk. She received $14 a week and her duties included matching newly published textbooks with professors teaching courses in that subject area. (21:57-25:10)... While working for MacMillan Publishing, she knew that she would not stay for very long because her pay was so low. She confronted her boss about this and he gave her a $1 raise, at which time she complained her salary was not enough for a woman to live on in New York City. He informed her that Jesse Reed was making only $25 an hour and she was with the company for 25 years. Butler later met Jesse Reed and informed her that her wage rate was being used as a standard by which to set the pay for all women working in the company. Jesse Reed tried to negotiate a higher salary for herself, but was fired. She was later pursued by several publishing companies. (25:10-30:12)... After she left MacMillan Publishing, she went to an employment agency organized by six women colleges. She was offered a job as a secretary at the Pulitzer School of Journalism at Columbia, making $85 a month. In this position, she worked as the secretary for a professor in the morning and for Talcot Williams, a journalist, in the afternoon. The department was very organized, but Talcot Williams was not used to that type of atmosphere. After spending the entire day interviewing people, at 5:00 p.m., he requested that she stay and review his daily business, causing her to miss her meals and increasing her work hours. She later walked out on Talcot Williams when he refused to abide by her schedule even after she informed him that her day was to end at 5:00 p.m. He ultimately fired her while she was on vacation. To his surprise, however, she returned from her vacation and advised him that she would continue to work for two weeks until she found another position. He was intimidated by this and did not give her any problems while she finished out her final weeks. She worked at the Pulitzer School of Journalism for two years. (30:12-35:35)... When she left the job at Columbia University, she returned to the employment agency and was offered a job as a statistician and investigator for the Massachusetts Minimum Wage Commission. Amy Hughes, a professor at Holyoke College, ran the division and wanted someone who was college educated. A month later, she traveled to Boston, Massachusetts to begin the job. However, a New England woman, who was an experienced statistician, was hired and they did not want Butler any longer. When she arrived, she was given a test on which she miscalculated a row of numbers. She was called into Amy Hughes' office and fired. She invited the New England girl, Helen Hill, to lunch and proposed that they form a coalition in which Butler would manage their staff and Helen Hill could handle the numbers and the statistics of the job. They returned to Amy Hughes and she accepted this offer. Butler worked in this position for four years and made $1,400 a year. (35:35-39:12)... Moving to a big city was a huge transition from her stable and secure life in Pueblo, Colorado and the dormitory at Smith College. In college, she was exposed to a lot of culture, such as Ibsen's, A Doll House, and she enjoyed companionship , and friendships with her fellow classmates. When she moved to New York she lived in a boarding house where men and women shared living spaces, and although the food was good, the living conditions were poor. There were some people living at the boarding house who had problems and she was exposed to strange situations. (39:12-44:08)... The boarding house she lived in while working for MacMillan was very dirty. She would occasionally eat at the Women's University Club, but she could not afford to live there. When she accepted the position at Columbia University, she was allowed to live in the prestigious college dormitory, Whittier Hall. When she was in New York, she met a very educated woman who owned a publishing firm. This woman hosted parties at her apartment, which were attended by New York intellectuals. Butler was invited to these parties and was well liked by the guests, who thought she was a novelty because she did not drink or smoke. When sexual subjects came up, Butler pretended like she didn't know what they were talking about, which also made her different. When Butler brought one of her Smith friends to the party, the guests despised this woman because she was so ordinary and like other New Yorkers. However, when she brought her sister to the party, the guests adored her because she was just as innocent as Butler. end of tape
- SUBJECT BIO - Jesse Haver Butler served as a lobbyist for the National Consumers League in Washington, D.C. during which time she came into contact with activists in the National Woman's Party. In 1919-1920, she toured the western states with Carrie Chapman Catt during the ratification drive for the woman's suffrage amendment. Raised on a ranch in Colorado, Butler was determined to attend Smith College. She graduated from there in 1918 and went to work for first for the Massachusetts Minimum Wage and then moved to Washington D.C. to serve as a lobbyist for the National Consumers League. In Washington, she ate lunch regularly at the National Women's Party headquarters, and came into contact with many of the women involved with the picketing of the White House. After she toured the western states with Carrie Chapman Catt during the ratification drive for the woman's suffrage amendment, she married and went with her husband to England. On her return to the US, she began a new career, teaching public speaking to women. A full life history of approximately 12 hours was recorded with Butler, between November 1972 and the spring of 1973, when she was 88 years old, in her apartment in a retirement community in LaVerne, California. She had come to public attention as a result of her participation in the 1970 celebration of women's suffrage. A woman of commanding presence, with a vigorous voice and persona, Butler was highly committed to the goals of the Feminist History Research Project and to the women's liberation movement. In the course of the several years following the interview, she regularly spoke on college campuses and to women's groups and remained very involved working on child care issues with the local chapter of NOW. TOPICS - Topics covered on this side of the tape include: family background and relationships; childhood; adolescence; schooling; aspirations to go to Smith College;Topics covered on this side of the tape include: experiences at Smith College; employment at MacMillan Publishing, Columbia University, and Massachusetts Minimum Wage Commission; and the living conditions and social life for young single women in New York;
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