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Butler, Jesse Haver (audio interview #10 of 11)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - The purpose of this interview was to obtain information on Butler's involvement with the Fabian summer school she attended while living in England and her current involvement with childcare centers. Some of the material in this interview (both on and off tape) seems to blur fantasy, reality, and dreams, but it is obvious when this occurs. This is more a sign of her mystical beliefs rather of impaired thinking and was encountered previously her discussions of dream interpretations, reincarnation, and other spiritual beliefs. 1973-05-16
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- 2020-01-29
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- *** File: sufjhbutler16.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-0:38)... Tape introduction (0:38-5:11)... The segment begins with a description of breast feeding techniques. Butler describes the process of pumping excess milk, which was used to feed her child in the evenings during the 6:00 p.m. feeding. When she took a day off to work at the American Woman's Club, the baby was fed a formula and she returned home in time for the baby's evening feeding. She recounts an experience of going to one of the Mother's Clinics because she experienced a pain in one of her breasts. (5:11-7:04)... While living in California, she met a woman who worked as a nurse and a midwife in Europe, delivering 150 babies a year. Some time in the 1960s, this woman worked for the labor and delivery unit at a leading hospital in New York. When a patient came in with birth complications, she delivered the baby because there was not a doctor available at the time. As a result, she was fired from her position because the hospital had a policy that no women were permitted to deliver babies. (7:04-9:00)... While attending Smith College, she took one of the first courses in psychology in America. She continued to take courses in that department, including philosophy, aesthetics, ethics, and logic. She was very interested in these subjects, which she believes was related to the negative experiences of her childhood. When she moved to England, she was told about the Tavistock Clinic, which was operated by Jones, the biographer of Sigmund Freud, and James Hatfield, a follower of Carl Jung. People were encouraged to attend the clinic and hear the lectures on psychology. She attended several of these lectures and made a decision that if she ever sought psychological treatment, she would do so with Dr. Hatfield because she preferred Jungian to Freudian ideas. (9:00-15:59)... After she gave birth to her daughter, she suffered from depression and had a difficult time caring for her daughter. After an incident in which she had an impulse to push her daughter's stroller in front of a streetcar, she visited Dr. James Hatfield and requested that he provide her with some guidance. After he finally agreed to see her, she was very scared when she went to his office for therapy. She recalls lying down on the couch and crying when he instructed her to close her eyes and think of herself as a baby. She feels that she was releasing the emotional pain she had been feeling throughout her life. From this point on, she began recalling the incidents that occurred when she was a child. It was very hard for her to come home and see her daughter after she experienced the emotional distress in her sessions. She went to therapy three times a week and paid for the sessions herself. By the time her son was born, she was nearly finished with therapy. (15:59-18:46)... While in therapy, she envisioned herself as a baby lying on her mother's lap, which she saw as a sheet of cold steel. Years later, she discovered that when her mother was placed in an orphanage, she was raped at the age of 12. Butler believes that this incident caused her mother to become emotionally frozen. As a result of the lack of her mother's affection, Butler grew up aggressive and hungry for emotion. (18:46-20:19)... After four years in therapy, she began to understand why she felt the way she did towards her daughter. Although Dr. James Hatfield located the source of some of her problems, her spiritual teacher in California explored her life and believes that she was a man in previous lives. The therapy she received from Dr. Hatfield resulted in her later success with teaching. She developed a keen sense of intuition for people's problems. (20:19-26:31)... While working in Boston for the Massachusetts Minimum Wage Commission, she met a man who told her about a local Fabian Society. She joined the organization and became the secretary. She attended several lectures organized by the group and learned a great deal about the Fabians. When she moved to England, she joined the Fabian Society, and attended their summer school program, along with George Bernard Shaw and several members of the House of Commons. As an American, she was considered a guest at the Fabian summer school. She sat at a table with Mr. Shaw. For several classes she did not speak because she was overwhelmed by the prestigious people in her presence. She was asked to give a lecture on Prohibition, which British people believed was an undemocratic policy. She simply recounted the history of Prohibition. After the lecture, she fielded several questions from members, which was a successful exchange. However, by the third lecture, she received a lot of negative feedback. One man, in particular, questioned her about English traditions about which had no experience. Nevertheless, she responded to his question, but she had no idea where she received the knowledge to do so. She believes that Mr. Shaw had ESP and gave her the answer telepathically. (26:31-29:49)... Two years later, a playwright who had a difficult time selling his play in America, gave a lecture on the inadequacy of American literature and the uncivilized nature of American society. She became very angry and challenged his statements with a very eloquent lecture. The other members of the Fabian Society congratulated her on the strong rebuttal. (29:49-31:43)... The Fabian Society was organized by paying members. George Bernard Shaw was the principal speaker and mouthpiece for the organization. She admired Mr. Shaw and traveled England to hear him speak on several occasions. Sydney Webb created the program and Beatrice Webb wrote the books for the Fabian Society. (31:43-33:43)... Annie Besant was the only woman in the Fabian Society who did a lot of speaking for the group. She also contributed to the newspaper created by George Bernard Shaw. Shaw gave Besant Madame Blavatsky's book on metaphysical science. This book greatly affected Besant, who stopped being an atheist and left the Fabian Society. She founded several philosophical societies all over England. When Besant was 80 years old, she gave a series of lectures, which Butler attended. (33:43-36:59)... She explains her vision for the development of a child care system in California. Child care centers should be developed in the center of both poor and middle-class communities. She proposes that child care centers be constructed at the same time housing tracts are built. The construction and costs should be the responsibility of the contractor building the tract homes as an incentive to lure people to buy homes in that tract. Mothers will have the opportunity to take their children to a child care center that is near their home and within the community. One particular development on which she was working at the time of the interview was Phillips Ranch community in Pomona. Once the child care center is built by the developer, all of the costs to operate the center and pay for the employees will be the responsibility of parents taking their children there. The Status of Women Commission for the State of California will be responsible for developing the rules and regulations for the design and operation of the child care centers. (36:59-39:32)... The chair of the Planning Commission supports the development of child care centers in the community and the Commission on the Status of Women for the State of California has also endorsed constructing child care centers within tract housing. If the planning commission orders developers to build child care centers within their housing tracts, and they refuse, they will not be permitted to build in the area. Butler is attempting to get endorsement from all of the representatives of the women's groups within the community. (39:32-44:25)... She is the secretary of the committee on child care for NOW in Pomona Valley. She plans to devote her energy within the movement to developing child care centers in the community. In turn, she believes that this movement will give the NOW nationwide publicity. Butler believes that using government funds to develop a child care system is not a good tactic; rather, they should be supported and financed by the people in the community. Suzanna Hughes, the president of NOW for Women in Pomona Valley, is very supportive of developing child care centers, and is seeking endorsement from other women's organizations on the issue. However, there are women's organizations like Fascinating Womanhood who oppose the development of child care centers. These types of women's groups believe that women should be at home with their children. Butler has not encountered any problems with these sorts of groups because her child care plan has not gained national publicity as of yet. She is hoping to keep the issue undercover until a hearing is scheduled. Butler never believed she would find another career so late in her life; however, she has found a niche within the NOW to work on the child care issue. end of tape
- SUBJECT BIO - Jesse Haver Butler served as a lobbyist for the National Consumers League in Washington, D.C. during which time she came into contact with activists in the National Woman's Party. In 1919-1920, she toured the western states with Carrie Chapman Catt during the ratification drive for the woman's suffrage amendment. Raised on a ranch in Colorado, Butler was determined to attend Smith College. She graduated from there in 1918 and went to work for first for the Massachusetts Minimum Wage and then moved to Washington D.C. to serve as a lobbyist for the National Consumers League. In Washington, she ate lunch regularly at the National Women's Party headquarters, and came into contact with many of the women involved with the picketing of the White House. After she toured the western states with Carrie Chapman Catt during the ratification drive for the woman's suffrage amendment, she married and went with her husband to England. On her return to the US, she began a new career, teaching public speaking to women. A full life history of approximately 12 hours was recorded with Butler, between November 1972 and the spring of 1973, when she was 88 years old, in her apartment in a retirement community in LaVerne, California. She had come to public attention as a result of her participation in the 1970 celebration of women's suffrage. A woman of commanding presence, with a vigorous voice and persona, Butler was highly committed to the goals of the Feminist History Research Project and to the women's liberation movement. In the course of the several years following the interview, she regularly spoke on college campuses and to women's groups and remained very involved working on child care issues with the local chapter of NOW. TOPICS - Topics covered on this side of the interview include the training for new mothers in England; Butler's Jungian analysis; her involvement in the Fabian Society; her ideas on child care; her current work to create child care centers in new housing tracts; and her current work with NOW (National Organization for Women) on this issue;
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