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Butler, Jesse Haver (audio interview #7 of 11)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This interview focuses mainly on Butler's career as a teacher of public speaking. It was conducted, as usual, in her apartment in the retirement community. 1973-02-14
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- 2020-01-29
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- SUBJECT BIO - Jesse Haver Butler served as a lobbyist for the National Consumers League in Washington, D.C. during which time she came into contact with activists in the National Woman's Party. In 1919-1920, she toured the western states with Carrie Chapman Catt during the ratification drive for the woman's suffrage amendment. Raised on a ranch in Colorado, Butler was determined to attend Smith College. She graduated from there in 1918 and went to work for first for the Massachusetts Minimum Wage and then moved to Washington D.C. to serve as a lobbyist for the National Consumers League. In Washington, she ate lunch regularly at the National Women's Party headquarters, and came into contact with many of the women involved with the picketing of the White House. After she toured the western states with Carrie Chapman Catt during the ratification drive for the woman's suffrage amendment, she married and went with her husband to England. On her return to the US, she began a new career, teaching public speaking to women. A full life history of approximately 12 hours was recorded with Butler, between November 1972 and the spring of 1973, when she was 88 years old, in her apartment in a retirement community in LaVerne, California. She had come to public attention as a result of her participation in the 1970 celebration of women's suffrage. A woman of commanding presence, with a vigorous voice and persona, Butler was highly committed to the goals of the Feminist History Research Project and to the women's liberation movement. In the course of the several years following the interview, she regularly spoke on college campuses and to women's groups and remained very involved working on child care issues with the local chapter of NOW. TOPICS - Topics covered on this side of the tape include: career as a public speaking teacher; writing a book on public speaking for women; speech workshops for the General Federation of Women's Clubs;Topics covered on this side of the tape include: public speaking workshops at annual meetings of General Federation of Women's Clubs; her move to California; personal and career crises in California; involvement with NOW; attitudes towards the women's liberation movement;
- *** File: sufjhbutler12.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-2:27)... Tape introduction. (2:27-3:44)... Butler repeats her previous story about Mrs. Englebright asking Eleanor Roosevelt to open Butler's next series of classes. (3:44-6:28)... In January 1939, she obtained a large auditorium in a Unitarian Church in anticipation of the audience that would gather to hear Eleanor Roosevelt speak. She also contacted all of the girls private schools in the Washington, DC area and invited them to come and hear Mrs. Roosevelt. In preparation for Mrs. Roosevelt's arrival, Butler provided private speaking lessons to the chairwoman of the meeting. They went over the entire program in detail. When the day came, they went to the church and the auditorium was jammed with the wives of senators, congressmen, and diplomats, and other prominent people from all over Washington, DC. Butler described the physical layout of the platform. (6:28-10:09)... Butler details the experience of having Eleanor Roosevelt introduce her public speaking class. It started as quite a fiasco and Butler was horrified, since this was supposed to launch her career in Washington, D.C. She might have even fainted. Nevertheless, despite the bad start, the program was carried out successfully. Evidently, her career was not ruined because the following week, 48 eager students appeared for her class. Mrs. Roosevelt told the women that they had to learn how to speak so that when they returned to their hometowns or their countries they could tell people what was occurring in Washington. Typical of her style, Mrs. Roosevelt gave a very practical and good speech to the women. (10:09-14:10)... For several months after Eleanor Roosevelt's introduction of Butler's class, she encountered women on the street who stopped and reminisced about the time when Mrs. Roosevelt helped the chairwoman pick up the contents of her purse. Butler always feigned amusement and knew it would be quite a while before that experience was forgotten. Her class in public speaking was a success and several women became brilliant speakers as a result of her instruction. On Mrs. Roosevelt's suggestion, many of the women returned to their home towns or countries and discussed the events in Washington, DC. For instance, the wife of Karl LeCompte created a scrapbook of events in Washington, DC and toured the State of Iowa giving speeches to women's clubs called "Chit Chats on Washington." Butler believe that many women voted for her husband when he ran for congress because they wanted to continue to hear her speeches. Butler recounts an encounter that Mrs. LeCompte had with columnist Drew Pearson, after which he wrote in his column that she hit him on the head with her umbrella. Mrs. LeCompte feared that her and her husband's careers were over; however, Butler assured her that now everyone knew that her husband was head of the Rules Committee and that Pearson's remarks were simply a way of discouraging women from speaking in public. (14:10-15:52)... Butler recounts how, after a few years, whenever a woman in Washington, DC hosted a dinner party, the male guests requested that they be seated near a woman who had taken a speech class. Eleanor Roosevelt introduced Butler's courses for two years. Mrs. Roosevelt was concerned about what she would talk about during her introductions; it was suggested that she discuss how she handled adverse criticism, which many women were likely to receive in their public lives. Mrs. Roosevelt was very valuable to Butler, and was largely responsible for launching her public speaking career. (15:52-18:29)... In addition to teaching the wives of congressmen and senators at the Women's Congressional Club, she also taught classes at the Women's Democratic Club in Washington, DC. The members of the Women's Congressional Club managed the club with great skill. Her first speech there was on the pomp and pageantry at the Court of St. James, at which time they announced that she would be teaching public speaking courses to the members; she taught courses there for 3-4 years. The women who attended her classes were very prominent women in Washington, DC and went on to pursue political activities within their home states. Several of these women assisted their husbands with their political campaigns. (18:29-21:18)... Initially, the women who enrolled in Butler's public speaking courses were the wives of politicians. However, after a number of years, women who did not have political ties attended her classes, e.g. a number of Dutch women who talked about their imprisonment by the Japanese during World War II. Butler recalls that Eleanor Sullivan, the wife of a congressman, was enrolled in the course with the Dutch women and became very discouraged because she believed she did not have any topics to speak on. Like so many of the women of the time who were elected to Congress, she was later elected to her husband's seat after he died. She went on to work with in congress on issues related to consumer affairs. (21:18-23:57)... Each public speaking class she taught lasted for eight lessons. The women's groups would approach her and request classes. After a couple of years, she began teaching at the Georgetown Visitation Convent. For nine years she taught girls in the high school and the junior college at the convent, recalling that many of her students later pursued public activities. At this point, Butler began to view her teaching of public speaking as a career. (23:57-25:53)... When she finished her public speaking courses at George Washington University, her children returned to Washington, DC. While in college, Professor W. Hayes Yeager discouraged her from pursuing her doctorate degree and advised her to become involved in the women's movement. From 1939-1950, Butler taught classes both day and night. (25:53-28:03)... After teaching several courses in public speaking, she recognized the need for a textbook tailored to women. She attended the annual meeting for the Speech Association of America, where a leader in the field and president of the Speech Association of America, suggested that she write her own textbook. He advised her to simply write using she had been teaching to students all along. He gave her a deadline of June 1st to complete the first three chapters of the book. The book was ultimately published in 1943 or 1944. (28:03-30:57)... The following summer, she and her husband visited their hideout in the Shenandoah Mountains, where she planned to write her book. She spent the entire summer in the mountains by herself, only occasionally seeing her children when they came for visits. She had trouble getting started, but once she began she wrote the first chapter, "The Conquest of Fear," in six hours. When she submitted this chapter to Professor Begantz, who had originally suggested she write the book, he told her that nothing similar existed in any books he read. Men experience fear, but they do not admit it, which is why no other books addressed the issue. By September of that summer, she finished the book. (30:57-34:44)... While living in Massachusetts, she worked as the secretary of a Fabian Society and met a man who worked for Harpers. She wrote to this man and informed him of her book, which he agreed to publish. While she was in the mountains, she befriended the "hillbilly women" who lived there. She invited two women to drive with her to Washington, DC so that they could see the city. On the drive down the mountain, Butler lost control of her vehicle and crashed into a gully. Luckily, no one was hurt, but because they were not visible from the road, Butler had to climb out of the car and onto the road to get assistance. She returned the hillbilly women to their homes and they were never able to see Washington, DC. (34:44-41:28)... Her public speaking book was published in 1946 and Eleanor Roosevelt and Mrs. Astor wrote expressions of gratitude in the book. The book did not generate a lot of publicity because many people still believed that women were shy and did not want to speak in public. Butler recounts being approached by Lady Harold Butler, who requested her assistance in finding a woman to report on the way England was handling World War II. As it turned out, the woman who went over, the President of the General Federation of Women's Clubs, was there during the bombing of England. When she was ready to return to the United States, she asked how American women could help British women and was told that they needed wedding dresses. After returning to the US, she launched a wedding dress campaign that allowed British women to rent wedding dresses from American women for $2. Butler claims that Mrs. Roosevelt also donated her wedding dress. (41:28-43:59)... When Mrs. Whitehurst returned from her tour in England, she reported the details of her experiences at every state convention for the General Federation of Women's Clubs. She thanked Butler for recommending her for the English tour and agreed to Butler's request to conduct public speaking workshops at the state conventions of the General Federation of Women's Clubs. Despite Mrs. Whitehurst's initial reservations, Butler subsequently conducted four workshops the during the conventions. The first public speaking workshop was held in St. Louis, and although Mrs. Whitehurst warned her that no one would attend the workshop because there was already an experienced public speaking teacher scheduled for the convention, Butler found the room packed. end of tape *** File: sufjhbutler13.mp3 (0:00-1:13)... The first state convention for the General Federation of Women's Clubs she attended was in the 1940s prior to the publication of her book. By the second state convention, her book was finished and she brought copies with her. She taught public speaking workshops at 7-8 annual meetings for the General Federation of Women's Clubs. She was paid for her expenses and permitted to sale her book to members. Her activities with the General Federation of Women's Clubs generated publicity and numerous sales of her book. (1:13-5:03)... Several women who attended her classes were presidents of state General Federation of Women's Clubs. In particular, she recalls one president from Pennsylvania who after the third annual meeting approached Butler and praised her for the impact the book had on her career and life, but she had not thought to pass it along to others. As a result, her goal of training women had limited success because women did not share the lessons they learned in the book with each other. Gradually, the skill of public speaking began to develop in the General Federation of Women's Clubs, but the headquarters refused to endorse her book. There were three states that agreed to advertise her book., including Ohio and Wyoming. She was asked to come to these states and provide speech lessons and sell her book. Within a couple of years, the book went out of print because it lacked the sponsorship of all the women she taught through the years and at the General Federation of Women's Clubs. When she moved to California and taught at Mount San Antonio College, she also used her book. Since then, her efforts to get her book into print again have not been successful. (5:03-9:09)... When she left Washington for California her career was very successful. However, when she arrived in California her efforts to keep her career going were unsuccessful. She attempted to gain a teaching position at one of the colleges at the Pomona campus. With the exception of a few colleges, there were no good public speaking courses being offered in the western states, but no one wanted to hire her as a public speaking teacher. She met with the president of Scripps College who told her that the girls at the college were well trained in dramatic techniques that qualified them as good public speakers. However, she later observed these girls and noted they had no poise on the stage or any talent in public speaking. When she suggested that she could raise money to start a public speaking program at the college, she was told that she would need $100,000 and $5,000 to start a course and that they would not guarantee her that she could teach in the program. (9:09-10:23)... The first 10 years in California were disappointing for her. It was difficult to transplant a successful career from one state and expect to have continued success in a new environment. She was fired from Mount San Antonio College when they discovered she was 75 years old. At the time, professors were only able to teach until they were 65 years old. (10:23-13:21)... Even though her career was failing, she was determined to stay active. Around 1955-56 she began training with Vic Tanney and for three years, three times a week she worked on strengthening and firming her body. She and her husband began to experience problems in their relationships because they were both "prima donnas" struggling in a new environment without careers. They ultimately sought treatment from Dr. Paul Papanow, who asked them to take a very lengthy questionnaire. As a result, they discovered several new characteristics about themselves. They begun to work on their marriage, paying special attention to these neglected characteristics, which saved their marriage. (13:21-14:50)... While in California, her husband organized a Festival of Faith in Pomona similar to the one held at the United Nations. He worked on this Festival of Faith for 2-3 years. Then, around 1952-53, they discovered a new religion which they practiced for 18 years. They travel to Glendale twice a week to listen to sermons. She believes this religion resulted in her successful marriage and a long life of health, happiness, and vitality. Even though their careers failed when they moved to California, they pursued other interests that helped them live a successful life. (14:50-17:36)... Soon after she arrived in California, she taught a class for the YWCA in a hall at Laverne College, for which many women enrolled. In addition to teaching at Mount San Antonio College, she also taught one class for the National Organization for Women. Returning to the topic of her public speaking courses in Washington, DC, she notes that after Eleanor Roosevelt stopped opening her classes, Mrs. William Fulbright took over this responsibility. (17:36-20:19)... Her involvement with the current women's movement was spurred by a lecture held at Claremont College by a woman from Pittsburgh, although she was not impressed by this woman's speech. Then, 1970, she met Judy Meuli, an activist in the National Organization for Women (NOW), who asked her to teach a class for NOW members. Butler agreed to teach the class only if the women paid for the lesson. She wanted the proceeds of this class to go towards creating a Speakers Bureau within NOW. As a result, there were several public speaking courses developed within the organization. In 1970, NOW was looking for women to speak about their suffrage activities for the jubilee celebration of the 19th amendment. Butler talked about the suffrage ratification drive in Tennessee. (20:19-26:21)... When Betty Friedan published The Feminine Mystique, Butler immediately read the book. She discusses the very unpleasant experience that a Dutch lawyer/psychoanalyst to whom she sent the book had with Betty Friedan. Butler describes Friedan as a very difficult, temperamental, and odd woman. Nevertheless, she believes that Friedan's book will stand as one of the most influential books in American history. (26:21-28:05)... Butler joined NOW after its initial caucus in Washington, DC. She knew that something very important had begun for women. She spent two days in Washington, DC at the annual meeting on the Status of Women Commission for the State of California. While there, she attended several lectures discussing the issues for women in California, which were brilliant presentations of what was needed to solve women's problems. Butler comments with excitement: "It's a revolution. There is no doubt about it. We're in for a revolution. Since it took 72 years just to get the vote, you can figure out for yourself how long it is going to take to solve this revolution that involves every part of women's lives." (28:05-30:39)... Butler believes that the women's revolution will be successful only if women can learn to work together. Women have a difficult time working together because they have always been in competition for the same things: marriage and security. She believes there is a solution to this uncooperative feeling among women, but she did not wish to discuss it on tape. She believes that women will also be successful when they learn how to run better homes, which at the present time are poorly organized and chaotic. The theory that women should be responsible for the children and the household is a flaw in the American belief system. She believes that the US must develop mother's clinics so that women can learn how to bear and care for children. (30:39-34:00)... Butler believes that women do not know what their goals are. Many women are unhappy with themselves and their marriages, which is why they are getting divorces on the slightest provocation. At the same time, these women are untrained and unable to solve their problems. She discusses her visits to a high school and the inability of teenagers to set goals for themselves. Many children think about running away and getting married; however, they are not intellectually or emotionally prepared for marriage at their young age. She believes that children are the ones who suffer from people's inability to formulate a plan for the span of their lives; as a result, the family is slowly deteriorating. (34:00-37:59)... In contrast to the suffrage movement, the woman's movement is organized and managed by untrained and unskilled women. Both men and women are trying to develop their own consciousness - as evident in the "consciousness raising" meetings of the women's movement. Butler believes that we are reaching an age of humanity in which women will be integral; however they are untrained. She cites the phenomenon of widows who go bankrupt because they do not know how to handle their money. She wishes to become active in the NOW, but believes that the women who manage the organization are very untrained and amateurish. (37:59-40:06)... The woman's movement and the suffrage movement are not comparable. In the suffrage movement there was one goal: educate men and women on the impact women voters would have on society so that women could get the right to vote. There were not any deeper issues involved in the suffrage movement similar to those in the woman's movement. Suffragists simply wanted the vote because as citizens of the United States they were entitled to cast a ballot and elect good people within government. Today, women active in the women's liberation movement are dealing with deeper issues. While it took 72 years for women to get the vote, it will take even longer for women and men to solve the issues they are confronting now. She believes that they will learn to work together in solving these problems; there are men who will be willing to help women with their movement, and she cites her experience with men in Washington when she was trying to get a Minimum Wage Law. (40:06-41:33)... Women who are not involved in the women's movement will not be reached unless they are unhappy. For example, many women who are members of her women's club in Claremont are happy and do not wish to discuss the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA), nor do they know what it is. However, she notices that once in a while a woman will suddenly get a job and the women will realize that the only thing that keeps them off welfare is their husbands. Unlike some women, she is in a good position in life because she had a long and successful career, as did her husband. She developed her skills as a teacher, writer, and speaker, and pursued her goals within an environment that encouraged education and training. (41:33-44:23)... She is one of the few women in her age group who is involved in the women's movement. Her experiences with younger women in the NOW are good, though initially many of the young women thought she was a "farce." (44:23-45:10)... She has always wanted to help women since she was a girl. She confirmed this goal when she worked for the Massachusetts Minimum Wage Commission and observed the horrible working conditions and the exploitation of women factory workers. She enjoys working with and teaching women. She sees the goodness and talent in all women and will spend the rest of her life working to help women find themselves. end of tape
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