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Irvin, Robert (audio interview #1 of 1)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - Irvin was interviewed in his Orange County townhouse where he lived with his wife. He was an attorney and an articulate spokesman for his conservative view of law and politics. The interview was arranged at a luncheon set up and attended by Darrell Neig 10/6/1984
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- *** File: subrirvin1.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-2:49)... Introduction Irvin was born in Buffalo, New York, in 1918. At 16 he graduated from high school and left for the University of Michigan. His father was raised on a farm in western New York State and graduated from the University of Michigan before becoming a lawyer in Buffalo, specializing in probate and estate work. His mother was from Michigan and he had a brother, Glen, who was 4 years older. Irvin majored in prelaw at the University of Michigan and then graduated from law school there in 1941. That year the bar exam was moved up so students could take it before being drafted. He passed the Michigan bar and spent the summer in Florida with his mother. That fall of 1942 he ended up in Washington D. C. (2:49-4:19)... Irvin found a job in Washington D. C. working for Sen. Harry Truman's committee to investigate the national defense program. Among the committee staff, Irvin was known as the "Wall Street lawyer" because he was conservative and most of the people he worked with were liberals. Irvin stayed with the committee until the Democratic Party nominated Truman to run for Vice President. Truman told the committee staff that he would prefer to stay in the Senate but had to be loyal to the party and do as it wished. (4:19-9:33)... Among Irvin's assignments while he worked for Truman's committee was to investigate the the efficiency of various shipbuilding companies. He also investigated the conversion of industry to war status. Some industrialists claimed they could produce for both the war effort and for the home front, but the committee didn't feel there were enough raw materials for both. The committee felt it was essential for the industry to convert existing production facilities to war time status. The committee investigated a subsidiary of US Steel and found it was falsifying tensile tests and the chemical content of the steel it was shipping. The company was angry and said that the committee was upsetting the war program. The company wanted to talk directly to Truman but he refused to see them. The Justice Department sued the corporation for criminal violations but they were eventually exonerated. (9:33-14:30)... Sen. Mead from New York succeeded Truman as head of the investigating committee and wanted Irvin to serve as his executive assistant, since he was from New York. Sen. Brewster was also on the committee and recommended Irvin for his first job in Long Beach. After Truman was elected as Vice President it became apparent that FDR's health was declining and Truman would soon become President. Irvin wanted to work on the White House staff but there was no opening for him. Some friends of Irvin's in Detroit who were starting a public relations firm, Washington Business Services, asked him to establish and manage their Washington office. (14:30-18:15)... Irvin had almost no vision in one eye and suffered a severe back injury in college so he was rejected when he tried to enlist during WWII as a ham radio operator. When he went to work for Truman's committee, Truman wrote a letter to President Franklin Roosevelt requesting his continued deferment. He ran the Washington office of his friend's firm for about a year. They represented businesses before Congress and governmental agencies. He moved his family to Detroit to work with clients. Some of the partners, however, got into a fight and the company fell apart . Then he decided to go to Oregon to look for a new job. (18:15-20:19)... Irvin called up a friend who was also planning to move to Oregon and they set out together. He received several job offers but ended up moving on to California. He visited chambers of commerce as he toured around Oregon and California and found a job as manager of the Governmental Affairs Department of the Long Beach Chamber of Commerce. He thought Long Beach looked like a great place to raise his kids. (20:19-22:42)... Irvin's first house in California was a little outside the Long Beach city limits, but it was later annexed. Doug Campbell was the manager of the Chamber of Commerce who hired him and he worked there for 3 years. His job was to keep track of legislative matters on all levels. That's where he read about the US Supreme Court decision stripping the states of their tidelands. He couldn't believe the Supreme Court would do such a thing. It seemed contrary what he'd learned in law school. (22:42-25:59)... Long Beach had tremendous oil resources and some of them were located under tidelands and submerged lands. Some people felt those lands belonged to the federal government. Harold Ickes, Secretary of the Interior, initially supported the idea that the lands belonged to the states and that California had granted them to Long Beach. Later, however, he reversed his opinion, leading to a lawsuit in which the Justice Department alleged that California had never owned the land. The Department argued that because wars came to the US over coastlines and the federal government was responsible for protecting the coast from invasion, they should also own the oil under that land. Irvin believed this was wrong and a violation of the right to private property guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. It was while working for the Chamber that he became involved in the struggle over ownership of the tidelands and submerged lands. (25:59-29:10)... While working at the Chamber he met Darrell Neighbors who was representing the real estate interests in the community in trying to eliminate rent control in Long Beach. Irvin worked with him on this project; they succeeded in getting rid of rent control and became good friends. When Irvin first came to Long Beach, the local Chamber was working with the San Fernando Chamber of Commerce to create a transit agency to run buses between the beach and the valley. They convinced the state legislature to created such an agency but when Los Angeles representatives got involved, things got more complicated and the line was never created. For 3 years, starting in 1948, Irvin worked for the Chamber on transportation, rent control and other issues that impacted local businesses. Then he decided that he wanted to set up his own public relations business, so he left the Chamber. (29:10-30:43)... Irvin went to work for the Long Beach Chamber of Commerce in the fall of 1947 and stayed until 1950 when he decided to open his own public relations firm. He discussed his plan with 4 or 5 important business men and they all advised him not to try to open his own firm. He did it anyway and worked for the firm until 1972. End of tape *** File: subrirvin2.mp3 (0:00-5:05)... While working on the tidelands issue, Irvin got acquainted with Long Beach City Attorney Irving Smith. Irvin helped Smith establish a Washington office to represent Long Beach's interests. They worked with representatives from Texas and Louisiana to try to convince Congressional Representatives and Senators that states owned the tidelands. Irvin spent a lot of time working in Washington, writing speeches, news releases, etc. building support in Congressional districts and states. They managed to get a bill through Congress but Truman vetoed it. The second time the bill was passed, in 1952, Eisenhower signed it and Irvin returned to Long Beach. He decided he was unhappy with some members of the Long Beach Harbor Commission that had been employing him, so he exercised the thirty day cancellation clause in his contract. He worked closely with California Attorney General Pat Brown on the tidelands issue, but not with Governor Earl Warren; Lt. Governor Goodwin Knight was much more enthusiastic in support the tidelands struggle. (5:05-8:30)... California Sen. Downey supported state ownership of the tidelands and Nixon later ran for Downey's Senate seat. Sen. Knowland also supported state ownership of the tidelands. After Downey retired from the US Senate, he started working for the lobbyists and was very effective since he had access to the Senate floor. He was key in getting the legislation passed. Even after the tidelands bill passed, the federal government continued to contest the definition of San Pedro Bay. Both the federal and state governments wanted the boundary lines drawn in such a way that the oil fields would belong to them. (8:30-13:11)... The Long Beach, the Harbor Commission, not the City Council, controlled the tidelands and developed the oil fields. While Irvin worked for the Harbor Commission, they assigned him to give Pat Brown a tour of Long Beach harbor including the oil wells. After the tour, Brown asked the Commissioners what they were planning to do with the revenue from the oil. He suggested that California could use some of it. About the same time, an article in the Saturday Evening Post called Long Beach the "Town with too Much Money," and that triggered a struggle between the city and the state over revenue from oil wells on the tidelands. Long Beach City Attorney Irving Smith told Irvin that the state would not be able to take the city's oil revenue. City officials were anxious to use some of the oil revenue for projects outside the harbor area so the City Council passed a charter amendment to authorize half of the money to be used for this purpose. And this was the issue on which the City was attacked in the Mallon case. (13:11-18:00)... In 1911 the state granted the city title to all of the tidelands and submerged lands within the city's boundaries out to the state's three mile limit. Various legal decisions held that Long Beach owned all of that land in "fee simple" and controlled every aspect of it including the oil underneath. After oil began to be produced there, the City Council adopted a charter amendment freeing up half of the money for upland development. They declared that some of the drilling sites were no longer need for the purposes of the tidelands trust and were, therefore, surplus and available for use in other parts of the ity. This legal principal was tested and upheld in state courts. And the City's charter amendment was approved by local voters, the state legislature and signed by Governor Earl Warren. Long Beach proposed to use the oil revenue only for capital improvements, not for operating costs. During this time, money was accumulating in the tidelands trust account; the city was afraid to spend it for fear they might have to pay it back if the legislation they favored didn't pass. (18:00-21:42)... Before the city could begin to allocate revenue from the tidelands oil fields to upland City projects, the Mallon suit was filed. Mallon argued that the city's charter amendment was unconstitutional and the money from tidelands oil revenue had to be spent on the tidelands. The California Tidelands Protective Association and other groups launched a publicity assault, claiming that Long Beach was stealing the money. When the case reached the California Supreme Court, the justices ruled that the intent of the legislation was to transfer the revenue not to other city projects but to the state. They also ruled that the state could revoke the tidelands grant at any time. The stability of the tideland grants up and down the Pacific coast were called into question as a result. Before oil was discovered off the coast, the state granted tidelands and submerged lands to cities so they they could develop harbors and other facilities that the state couldn't finance. After oil was discovered, when the state made these grants in places like Seal Beach, it reserved mineral rights. (21:42-26:42)... At this point, Long Beach seemed to be at the mercy of the state legislature. This is when Irvin was retained by the Press-Telegram to work on this issue. There were several "front" organizations working against the city including the Tulare Farm Bureau and the California Tidelands Protective Association. Irvin knew that lobbyists had to register with the legislature and suggested the paper find out who employed them. The paper assigned investigative reporter Jim Phelan to this job; he and Irvin worked together on this issue and became friends. They tried to get the Attorney General to investigate whether or not lobbying laws had been violated. Eventually they found out that the money could be traced back to the Southern California Gas Company. (26:42-30:43)... Long Beach didn't really have any friends among other cities in the tidelands struggle. If the money went to the state, other cities might get part of it. There was compromise legislation that gave tidelands money to the state. When the California Supreme Court ruled that revenue from oil under the tidelands had to be handed over to the state, it made, in Irvin's opinion, a bad ruling. The decision applied to an area where there were no voters -- the bed of the ocean. There was a related dispute over who could grant licenses to fishermen operating over the tidelands. Then there was another case involving water rights along the Santa Margarita River on a military base where there were also no voters. End of tape *** File: subrirvin3.mp3 (0:00-3:06)... The Santa Margarita River case was an example of extending the doctrine used in the tidelands case inland. The government used it to claim water rights and wells. The Los Angeles Times supported property owners in the area in their fight for control of their property. A Times reporter initially didn't believe that the cases represented application of the same principal but after much arguing, Irvin convinced him and they worked together after that. Irvin believes that the legal history of the tidelands is one of unfairness, unhappiness and thievery in which legal principles went out the window. The reason for this is that there was so much money involved. The state received a $120 million windfall. And the state could spend the money anywhere it wanted; it didn't have the same restrictions for spending the money that Long Beach had. Irvin believes that Long Beach's money was used to build Oroville Dam. He tried to get it named "Long Beach Dam," but event he Times wouldn't support this campaign. (3:06-7:51)... Among Irvin's clients were the Long Beach Harbor Commission and the Richfield Oil Company; he worked for Richfield for 11 years. Richfield was the only oil company that admitted that oil extraction led to subsidence. Irvin found another client when Darrell Neighbors invited him to a meeting involving many local civic leaders including Larry Collins, Earl Burns Miller, Hank Ridder, Gus Walker, Fred Dean, Llewellyn Bixby and probably some others Irvin couldn't remember at the time of the interview. This was a "behind the scenes" group concerned about the damaging effects of subsidence on Long Beach. He was retained by the people at this meeting and he served as sort of secretary of the group, arranging meetings, etc. Most of the oil companies, except Richfield, were enemies of the city. They claimed that extracting oil had nothing to do with subsidence. The oil companies just wanted the controversy to end so they could produce the oil; they supported a compromise on the tidelands issue that would have divided oil revenues between the states and federal government. (7:51-11:47)... Irvin was also involved in trying to get a major department store, such as Bullocks, to locate in downtown Long Beach. He worked with Sam Cameron on this issue. Cameron, who worked for the Press-Telegram supported this idea because it might bring more advertising revenue to the paper. This is how Irvin get Cameron involved in the subsidence fight. Cameron became an important ally because he had connections in the state legislature and became close friends with Jess Unruh, Speaker of the Assembly. The members of the anti subsidence committee were unhappy with the city manager, Sam Vickers, because they believed city wasn't aggressively attacking the issue. Because some people on the committee were strong supporters of the manager, the committee eventually lost members and gained new ones. At this point, the committee was reorganized and became known as the "Hard-Core Committee". (11:47-14:15)... The committee supported the Navy lawsuit although it was never carried to conclusion. However, it ultimately led to subsidence being stopped. The committee also supported John Mansell as the new city manager. After that, they tried to map out additional projects but none of them was successful. The newspaper was the driving force of the committee and when it became tired of the struggle, the committee just died away. This was the first time Irvin had been involved in a "behind the scenes" group that influenced city policies although he later discovered that most cities had such groups. (14:15-17:09)... When he worked for the Press-Telegram, one his first jobs was to help move the customs house out of downtown Los Angeles into the harbor. He thinks LA had never wanted to see Long Beach develop. The fact that the harbor developed so fast, had so much oil revenue to invest in its development and surpassed LA led to jealousy between the cities. The Press Telegram took its lumps from the LA Times in particular for "running things" in Long Beach. Irvin opened his own office in about 1950. One of his first clients was a vitamin company that had problems with the Food and Drug Administration and wanted him to represent them in Washington. (17:09-23:46)... Irvin is looking at a list he kept in the 1950s of his clients. He was retained by the Long Beach Harbor Department in December. He also worked for Pacific National Bank, which was owned by Mark Taper, one of the developers of Lakewood. He handled the bank's opening on Pacific Avenue. And he helped Herb Klocksheim get elected to the state Assembly. He did something he can't remember for Gold Star Manor but remembers Eleanor Boyd as a strange person. In 1953 he worked for Hancock Oil Company to get the US Air Force out of the Long Beach Airport. Hancock had an oil refinery nearby, before it burned, and they didn't want to deal with Air Force regulations. He also worked for Freeman Fairfield when Fairfield bought the old Independent building and wanted to get publicity when he gave it to the United Way. Irvin also helped him establish the Long Beach Petroleum Club and the club made him a charter member. Later he had a falling out with Fairfield. (23:46-26:58)... Another company, in 1955, wanted to solve smog by building an air sewage system to collect polluted air and blow it out in the desert. He served on the board of the Community Hospital, but resigned to work for them when they got state money to build a new wing. Later he convinced the hospital that they needed their own public relations department. (26:58-29:40)... There was an initiative on the California ballot to force unitization of oil wells to allow a repressurizaton program to stop subsidence. Irvin got the Chamber of Commerce to endorse this initiative. The Chamber had just succeeded in getting independent oil men to join the chamber and this endorsement led most of them to resign. Freeman Fairfield took out a full page ad in the newspaper to attack the Chamber. (29:40-30:33)... Irvin started working for the "Hard-Core" anti subsidence committee in August,1957. They paid small monthly fees to work for the group. End of tape *** File: subrirvin4.mp3 (0:00-6:50)... Irvin worked for John Brown Towers, later called Bixby Towers, to publicize their opening. In April, 1965 the anti subsidence committee split over support for the city manager; some members left and others joined. The new members included local attorneys and others. About the same time, Irvin served on the board of Long Beach Amusement Company. This was when company revenues were dropping and the board had to decide how to use their land. The head of the corporation wanted to build a classy amusement park but the idea was never implemented. (6:50-9:22)... NuWay Laundry hired Irvin to publicize the fact that they were still in business after their plant burned. The head of the laundry worked very hard to find others plants to serve his customers until he could build a new plant. Once subsidence was stopped, the "hard-core" committee couldn't find another issue around which to unify. The committee had quit meeting by January, 1968. (9:22-13:58)... When Irvin lived in Washington, D. C. he observed that the cherry blossoms were a big tourist attraction. He wanted to do something similar in Long Beach. He had a plan that, at the same time would eliminate skid row. He wanted to replace the Pacific Electric tracks between Willow and Ocean on Long Beach Boulevard with flowering trees and plant trees along the south side of Ocean as well. But the plan never caught on. Ed Killingsworth, who had supported the tree planting idea, suggested they try it again at the college where he was the architect in charge of planning the campus. The idea caught on there and fund raising began with groups like Boy Scouts raising nickels and dimes. Ed Lovell, the campus landscape architect, chose peach trees. (13:58-18:01)... Irvin also volunteered to help with the First International Sculpture Symposium at Cal State Long Beach. He worked with Ken Glenn, who had the idea for the symposium and organized it. People from the local community helped raise money to support the sculptors and provide them with materials. Of course it cost more than was budgeted; the sculptors were temperamental and made all sorts of demands. In the end, Fortune magazine ran a major article on the symposium and such publicity would have cost many times what the symposium did. (18:01-21:34)... Irvin continued to try to get more local people to plant peach trees. Some were planted near Los Altos shopping center, but no one else would adopt the idea. He tried to find an event to celebrate the tree's blossoming, but no one even came up with an appropriate one. Its hard to schedule any events around the peach trees because their blossoming is unpredictable. Bob Wells worked at the Press-Telegram before he joined the faculty at CSULB. Irvin had worked with Wells to get the customs house moved from downtown Los Angeles to Long Beach harbor. Irvin was always trying to figure out ways to make Long Beach more popular. (21:34-27:54)... Irvin is the one who came up with the idea making "the International City" Long Beach's "image building slogan." Irvin proposed the idea to Hank Ridder of the the Press-Telegram. Ridder thought it was a good idea and promoted it's adoption by other groups including the City Council. End of tape
- SUBJECT BIO - Robert Irvin had a public relations firm that represented Long Beach community leaders who were concerned about preserving the city's ownership of its tidelands and submerged lands, under which oil was discovered. He also represented leaders who were concerned about the sinking of the land under the city that was caused by producing that oil. In this single hour and a half interview, Irvin talks about the city's struggle to maintain title to its tidelands and submerged lands as first the federal and then the state government tried to force the city to share its oil revenue. He also discusses his role in the fight to end subsidence, which resulted from the production of that oil. Because the oil revenue was supporting the modernization and expansion of the harbor as well as enriching property owners in the harbor area, bringing it to an end was a complicated political problem. In addition, Irvin talks about other projects he supported including the International Sculpture Symposium and raising money to plant flowering peach trees at CSULB. This interview was part of a project to study the impact of the discovery of oil on the development of Long Beach. TOPICS - Irvin's family background; Irvin's education; Long Beach Chamber of Commerce; Sen; Harry Truman; World War II; US Supreme Court; Darrell Neighbors; and tidelands controversy;tidelands controversy; Long Beach Harbor Commission; Irving Smith; Mallon suit; oil wells; and Press-Telegram ;tidelands controversy; Long Beach Harbor commission; Press-Telegram ; Sam Vickers; Hard Core Committee; Freeman Fairfield; and Long Beach Community Hospital;Long Beach Amusement Company; flowering cherry trees; CSULB; International Sculpture Symposium; Edward Killingsworth; and Long Beach, the International City;
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