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Nestor, Barbara (audio interview #1 of 10)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the tenth interview with Barbara Nestor, and although she did not exhibit any memory difficulties, she quite often repeats information covered in previous interviews. She occasionally does not hear the questions being asked and digresses. The audio quality of the interview is fair, although there are a few areas where the recording includes a series of skips. TOPICS - composition and structure of southwest chapter of CP; Black self-determination; CP and Japanese internment; Khrushchev Report, and 1956-58 democratization period; invasion of Czechoslovakia; and Dorothy's decision to leave the party;anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union; attitude towards Arab-Israeli relations; reflections on Communist Party; and deportation of Fedya Nestor (also known as Dan);Topics on this tape include: Fedya Nestor's deportation; reflections on the socialist movement and influence of CP; attitudes towards the civil rights movement, women's liberation movement, and peace movement; and the New Deal and socialism in the 1930s; 6/11/1975
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- SUBJECT BIO - Barbara Nestor, the mother of Dorothy Healey (former chair, Southern California District, CPUSA), was a radical activist in her own right. Born in Hungary, she was raised first in St. Louis and then in Denver, Colorado. She became a socialist when she was only sixteen, and joined the Socialist Party in 1915. During WWI, she engaged in anti-war agitation. In 1919, when the Communist Party was formed in the US, she joined. After moving to Oakland, California in 1921 with her husband, Joe Rosenblum, and her children, she maintained a high level of activity, particularly with the International Labor Defense, and often risked arrest. She did not re-join the Communist Party until 1936, five years after she moved to Los Angeles. The interviews about the Los Angeles years detail the kind of rank and file organizing in which she engaged. Nestor's oral history sheds light both on her own thinking and on the influence she had on the development of her children's radicalism. Her interviews also reveal a great deal about her relationship with her daughter, Dorothy Healey and her grandson, Richard, for whom she had primary caretaking responsibilities, especially during the 1950s and the Smith Act trials. INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the tenth interview with Barbara Nestor, and although she did not exhibit any memory difficulties, she quite often repeats information covered in previous interviews. She occasionally does not hear the questions being asked and digresses. The audio quality of the interview is fair, although there are a few areas where the recording includes a series of skips. TOPICS - composition and structure of southwest chapter of CP; Black self-determination; CP and Japanese internment; Khrushchev Report, and 1956-58 democratization period; invasion of Czechoslovakia; and Dorothy's decision to leave the party;anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union; attitude towards Arab-Israeli relations; reflections on Communist Party; and deportation of Fedya Nestor (also known as Dan);Topics on this tape include: Fedya Nestor's deportation; reflections on the socialist movement and influence of CP; attitudes towards the civil rights movement, women's liberation movement, and peace movement; and the New Deal and socialism in the 1930s;
- *** File: refbnestor24.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-5:58)... Tape opens with no introduction When Nestor decided to take a leave of absence from the Communist Party, she became active with the International Labor Defense and Friends of the Soviet Union. At the urging of her comrades, she returned to the party in 1936. She describes the climate in the party at the time, arguing that there was an illusion of dedication, but that you could not depend on people to carry out party activities, such as distributing leaflets. When she rejoined the party, she was involved with the Southwest Section, which was a group of several clubs in the southwest region of Los Angeles. (5:58-11:09)... During Fedya (Dan) Nestor's deportation trial, a Black party member betrayed the party and testified that he had been to Nestor's home for party meetings, but that she only advocated peace. She explains that neither she, nor anyone else in the party, ever spoke of a violent revolution. She refers again to a confrontation with Pettis Perry, a Black communist who advocated self-determination in the Black Belt. She explains that most of the Blacks she knew wanted the rights and freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, not self-determination. (11:09-17:45)... Most of the members of the Southwest Section were Jewish, but there were also Japanese and Chinese. After the internment period, the Japanese members returned to the party. She recalls that when the Japanese members returned to the party they showed traces of bitterness, but did not speak of their experiences or express their feelings towards the party to any great extent. Initially, she accepted the party's position that internment was meant to protect the Japanese. However, she changed her attitude following an exchange between Carol Jean and a professor regarding the party's position on this issue. (17:45-19:29)... In 1946, she transferred to a new chapter in the Southwest Section. She talks about a comrade in this section who, after experiencing the effects of war, joined the party and became a dedicated communist and staunch opponent of warfare. She also sings a war song during this segment of the interview. (19:29-23:44)... Nestor discusses the Soviet Union's treatment of Hungary and the effect of the Khrushchev Report on the Communist Party. The revelations were like a thunderbolt hit the party. Unlike her daughter, Dorothy, Nestor did not view Leon Trotsky as a counter-revolutionary or a fascist. She recounts some of her debates with Dorothy on the merits of Joseph Stalin compared to Trotsky. Within the party, there were debates and disagreements about Stalin, but she believes that the majority of comrades justified his actions because he brought socialism to the Soviet Union. (23:44-28:33)... During the period following the Khrushchev Report, there were a few comrades in her southwest chapter who left the party. The majority, however, continued to support Stalin despite his actions in the Soviet Union. She describes her differences with Dorothy regarding Stalin's impact and influence on the Soviet economy. Nestor begins to sing a song about the Soviet Union, but has trouble remembering it. (28:33-34:59)... Following the initial upheaval of the Khrushchev Report, in 1956-1958, the party reorganized. Nestor discusses her attitudes towards the party's attempts to democratize and bring more people into the fold, and talks about Dorothy's identity as a dissident within the party, which began with the expulsion of Earl Browder. The internal debates between Foster, Bates and (Eugene) Dennis were fought behind the scenes. She believes that during this period, twenty-two people left the party and reiterates the criticism Dorothy encountered for her continued association with these people. Nestor recounts meeting a woman who refused to speak to her after learning that Dorothy was her daughter. She believes that his woman was opposed to Dorothy's criticism of the Soviet Union's invasion of Czechoslovakia. (34:59-38:46)... Nestor agreed with Dorothy's criticism of the party's decision regarding Czechoslovakia. She describes herself as a gadfly, indicating that her comrades knew her position on party policies and issues, but advised her on several occasions that she should not criticize the Soviet Union. There were other comrades opposed to the invasion of Czechoslovakia and she recalls that many people left the party during this period. Most, however, did not do it publicly, like Dorothy. Nestor feels that the party placed Dorothy in an awkward position that required her to make a statement regarding her decision to leave. end of tape *** File: refbnestor25.mp3 (0:00-6:07)... Nestor discusses her feelings towards the Arab-Israeli War and the Soviet Union's support of the Arab forces. Although her position was in opposition to the party's, she was not at risk for expulsion. However, Dorothy and other comrades openly disagreed with her opinion. During this period, she was ill and did not attend very many meetings. She recalls that Bill Taylor replaced Dorothy as chairman of the party and was in constant contact with Dorothy regarding party procedures and issues. Nestor explains that Dorothy was very knowledgeable of events in parties around the world. (6:07-13:40)... Note: there are skips in the recording within this segment. Nestor believes that the prevalence of anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union is exaggerated. She continues to discuss the Arab-Israeli conflict and the status of the Communist parties in the countries at war. She does not agree with Yasir Arafat's policies, but does not consider herself a Zionist. She goes on to define what she views as the differences between the Zionists and her position. Yet, she views an attack on Israel as an attack on the Jewish people. She stated her belief that it was vital that Israel survive and felt no compulsion to protect Palestinian's rights. If a bi-national state was feasible, she would support it. Despite her strong feelings on these issues, she does not consider leaving the party; it would be foolish to do so at the age of ninety. (13:40-18:54)... She reflects on the impact of the Communist Party and maintains that the Soviet Union displaced the idea that capitalism is supreme, resulting in the recognition that Russia is a formidable and strong force in the world. Although the American CP made mistakes, she believes it provided opportunities of expression for many people. In general, she contends that it was a mistake for the party to tie itself so closely with the Soviet Union. This connection stifled any criticism of party policies and comrades did not tolerate any opposition to the Soviet Union. She believes that objective and constructive criticism is necessary in the success of any organization. (18:54-26:05)... She believes that the American CP may have been more effective had it allowed for more discussion with other parties throughout the world. She decries the lack of humanity in the party and contrasts it with Italian party. She thinks that these differences are due to the leadership within the party, who she accuses of being opportunists and arrogant. She recalls that in her earlier days in the SP and in her association with the IWW there was more internal cooperation and assistance than in the Communist Party. (26:05-29:44)... Note: there are skips in the recording within this segment. Besides the Communist Party, she was also associated with humanist groups, the Unitarian Church, and the International Labor Defense. She feels that her activities with these groups fulfilled people's immediate needs more than did her party activities. In general, she believes that membership in the party limited one's influence and access to people outside the party. Specifically, she discusses her experiences with the Claybees (?), indicating that they could do more if they remained outside the party. (29:44-38:58)... Note: there are several skips in the recording within this segment. Nestor claims that the deportation of her second husband, Dan (also known as Fedya), was the first case of someone being deprived of their social security benefits. Charges that he entered the country as a Communist were brought against him in 1953 and he was deported in 1956. She talks about Fedya and repeats the incident when he insulted a Black woman by attempting to find her a job as a maid. end of tape *** File: refbnestor26.mp3 (0:00-5:34)... Nestor continues the discussion of her husband's deportation trial. The case was taken to the Supreme Court by the Committee for the Defense of the Foreign Born. When her husband was deported, she did not contemplate going with him to Bulgaria because she did not want to leave her family. [She digresses into a discussion of her attitudes towards Harry S. Truman and the Julius and Ethel Rosenberg case. (5:34-7:28)... Nestor assesses the socialist movement since her initial involvement more than sixty years ago. She is optimistic about the movement because people question things more than in the past, and the presence of socialist countries elucidate the differences between socialism and capitalism. (7:28-11:36)... She believes that the multitude of social movements have stimulated changes in society, e.g. the women's liberation movement, removed many of the restrictions placed on women. She discusses the woman's suffrage movement and her admiration for women in American history who fought for justice and equality. During the 1960s peace movement, she marched in a four mile demonstration. She recalls her experiences in the antiwar demonstration in Century City; she got out of there just before "all hell broke loose" (when the police attacked the demonstrators). She was also a member of the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom; however, most of her anti-war activity was through the Communist Party. She discusses her support of the Utopian Party. (11:36-14:40)... With regard to the civil rights movement, she advocated equal rights and privileges for Blacks, but did not support the self-determination movement. She repeats her debate with Pettis Perry regarding self-determination and explains that he lived in terror because of his political activism. [She digresses into a discussion about the government agents within the CP.] (14:40-16:50)... Nestor reflects on the influence of the party, the corruption of some of its leaders, and on the desire of people today to seek change through a democratic framework. (16:50-19:45)... Nestor remains a strong proponent of socialism and believes it will become an established form of government in the world. She argues that countries want to find an alternative to the capitalist system. The United States will be the most difficult country to adopt socialism; however, the Vietnam War proves that America is vulnerable. She also finds hope in the the US because of the government's success in exposing the corruption of Richard M. Nixon's administration. Had it not been for Watergate, she argues that Nixon would have allowed fascism to rise again. She discusses current events and her belief that John F. Kennedy's assassination was planned by the CIA and the Pentagon. In general, she feels that exposing the public to government corruption will break down people's respect for and trust in government leaders. (19:45-24:53)... Nestor believes that the capitalist system stabilized itself in the 1930s with the New Deal social policies. Had the government not addressed the problems in society, people would have revolted. She recalls this occurred in Arkansas when 3,000 people stormed a warehouse and demanded food. She believes that a socialist revolution will be a gradual transition, calling attention to Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal program and the situation in the 1930s. She compares Roosevelt to Gerald Ford, indicating that although Ford is a shrewd politician, he does not understand social issues. (24:53-26:52)... She is more optimistic about a socialist revolution than in the past. In the beginning, her optimism was based on the Russian Revolution. Her optimism is now based on the examples set by socialist countries. end of tape
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