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Laughlin, Susan (audio interview #1 of 1)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This single, lengthy interview was conducted with Susan Laughlin at her large, comfortable home in Laguna Beach. She was an informative and cooperative narrator and eagerly shared her memories and the various documents and photographs that she had kept. 10/12/1979
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- *** File: rrrslaughlin1.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-2:34)... Laughlin estimates that the number of women employed at Lockheed during the war was 115,000, or approximately forty-nine percent of the total number of women working in the aircraft industry in the Los Angeles area. (2:34-8:22)... Laughlin was employed in clerical work until the birth of her first child. Her husband was employed as a salesman for a large boat company, but lost his job when the war broke out. As a result, she returned to work to support her family. She was hired in the medical unit at the Lockheed Burbank plant, earning .51 cents an hour. From the beginning, "I made up my mind that I would speak to each person and let them know that I recognized them as a person." Employees kept coming back to her for advice about their work or family responsibilities. Consequently, her job evolved into a formal counseling position. Even though she approached the male supervisors in the plant cautiously, her presence in the plant was not well received by the men. (8:22-9:40)... One of her early responsibilities as a Women's Counselor was to survey the restrooms in the plant. The conditions angered her and she submitted a memorandum identifying everything that was necessary to make the facilities acceptable for women. All her requests were approved by the company. Had she realized then that the company was preparing for a large influx of women, she would have ordered "tens times that much." (9:40-14:44)... In early 1942, Laughlin was required to work in production in order to determine what types of jobs women could handle. She digresses regarding the day she complained to management about poor working conditions affecting women. At the time, Laughlin was working for John Fowle, "who really thought that all women belonged in the kitchen" and cared very little about the struggles of working women. (14:44-20:44)... Laughlin talks about one of her personnel supervisors. By the time additional counselors were hired at the plant, Laughlin had compiled a reference book of community groups and agencies that she sent employees to for assistance. She digresses regarding the lack of enthusiasm from male supervisors towards her role at the plant. She remembers one occasion when a supervisor called her down to the plant when a woman came to work with a bare midriff and "all the men were hitting themselves with hammers." Eventually, the company developed safety measures and appropriate clothing guidelines for production workers. (20:44-22:51)... When additional Women's Counselors were hired at Lockheed, they were assigned to specific manufacturing departments and required to report to Penholder, the manufacturing manager for all Lockheed plants. However, the Women's Counselors were under her supervision. This structure was occasionally problematic because once women got acclimated to the work they began doing things without her approval. (22:51-27:04)... Women were either referred to Counselors by supervisors or approached counselors on their own. Many women saw the counselors as their confidants and did not want supervisors to learn about their problems for fear they would lose their jobs. Laughlin talks about one of her counseling techniques, indicating that she developed counseling strategies on her own without formal training or education. However, many of the Women's Counselors she hired were educated in social work. It bothered Laughlin when these women treated employees like case studies rather than human beings. While male supervisors found it difficult to accept the new Women's Counselors, their relationship with Laughlin improved. They stopped seeing her as a woman, but as "Susan." (27:04-28:06)... Laughlin talks about the relationship she cultivated with various community organizations and local merchants for the purposes of assisting Lockheed employees. End of tape. *** File: rrrslaughlin2.mp3 (0:00-0:58)... Anyone employed at Lockheed could seek the assistance of a counselor. However, it was mainly women who sought out counseling advice. Laughlin believes that women were more likely to approach a counselor because they were the ones responsible for the family, and most of their problems were family-related. (0:58-3:13)... Lockheed did not offer its employees in-house shopping facilities or bill-paying services. Laughlin recalls when the national president of the PTA was hired at Lockheed. During a counseling meeting, this woman suggested that every woman be provided with a paid day off to go shopping. This incensed the Industrial Relations manager and he threatened to cancel the counseling program. Laughlin explains that women were working seven days a week and it would have been impossible for the company to grant women this time off. (3:13-5:58)... When women were hired at other Lockheed plants, Laughlin was sent there to handle counseling needs. Occasionally, she worked all three shifts at the plants. Although she overestimated the percentage of service wives employed at Lockheed, she believes that the estimation of ten percent was far too low. Whenever she counseled women having difficulty with the absence of their husbands, Laughlin suggested they work the swing shift so they would be "occupied during the hours when they most missed their husbands." (5:58-6:33)... Laughlin agrees that the majority of women who came to her with problems were primarily housewives with no previous work experience. For this reason, "I felt the program was so necessary because really what it was was helping women cope with working when they hadn't done it before and under very unusual circumstances." (6:33-12:22)... Aside from providing counseling services, Laughlin also played a policing role in certain circumstances. In addition to being a watchdog, she was usually present when supervisors had to speak to a woman about her job performance so that she could not "claim she was intimidated [by a man] in some way." Even though there were other women in personnel available to handle these matters, their functions were predominantly clerical. Laughlin believes that at one point, her official title was "in charge of problems affecting women." She digresses regarding a counseling session with a woman whose supervisor claimed that men were uncomfortable working with her because she used foul language. (12:22-16:10)... Laughlin discusses her relationship with the nursing staff at Lockheed. She recalls that the medical division was always very busy, which is why the nurses did not handle counseling issues. First aid units were stationed throughout the plant and there also was a medical office where people obtained care for minor accidents and common ailments. The interview follows with a discussion regarding Louise Davidson and her early role as both nurse supervisor and head of the counseling staff. (16:10-17:42)... While she was at work, she hired someone to take care of her children until she got home from work. When childcare centers were developed at Lockheed, she placed her children in a center. The interview digresses regarding the role that Laughlin played in establishing counseling programs at the other Lockheed plants. In addition to learning about women's needs and/or problems from male supervisors, restroom matrons also were helpful in this area. (17:42-21:35)... There were differences in the labor force demographics in each Lockheed plant. The plant located downtown employed a higher percentage of Blacks than any of the other Lockheed plants. Laughlin recalls the reaction of employees when the first African Americans were hired at the Burbank plant. She discouraged racism and segregation by telling employees, "it's a question of whether you want to work here or not, but if you do want to, those are the conditions." One of the counselors wanted to speak to White and Black employees about the counseling program separately. (21:35-25:54)... Laughlin discusses the process of going into the plant and informing employees about the counseling program. She believes that employees were introduced to a Counselor their first day on the job. (She shuffles through some paperwork in an attempt to find an article she wrote for Mademoiselle Magazine that details how women employees were introduced to their departments by a Women's Counselor; and also provides a report generated by counselors standardizing their procedures. ) (25:54-28:24)... Women's Counselors were discouraged from keeping detailed records of their sessions with women for confidentiality reasons. Women came to the counselors with the understanding that their problems would not be broadcast to the rest of the company and counselors worked hard to establish a level of trust with these women. Laughlin mentions a telephone call she received from a woman expressing her gratitude thirty years after Laughlin left Lockheed. The counseling she did was "the kind that you go to a hairdresser and you pour out all your problems because you know that they don't know anybody that you know and it doesn't matter... It was just somebody to talk to and then if they needed any help you could give it to them." End of tape. *** File: rrrslaughlin3.mp3 (0:00-2:32)... A counselor's responsibilities did not include conducting exit interviews with employees leaving Lockheed. However, counselors were involved in resolving absentee issues at the request of a supervisor. Laughlin discusses one such case involving a Black woman who worked only three days a week. (2:32-3:26)... Laughlin talks about when the Pearl Harbor widows were hired at Lockheed. (3:26-8:52)... She did not pay special attention to the distribution of minorities at Lockheed. Her only concern relative to minorities was the initial introduction of Black workers into the plants. She does not recall what percentage of minority women sought assistance from the counselors. When addressing how other counselors dealt with minorities, she digresses regarding problems with counselors who made departmental decisions without considering company policy. Laughlin attempted to resolve this problem by adopting Penholder's strategy of rotating male supervisors into different departments and/or plants. When Laughlin implemented this procedure, she encountered staunch resistance from the counselors. (8:52-9:33)... Each counselor had an office located in the production department in which they were assigned. These offices were usually small and plain. Laughlin believed that the counseling program was more effective under there conditions. (9:33-10:01)... Regular meetings were held among the Women's Counselors. Laughlin provides a document noting the meetings held in the company boardroom. (10:01-11:49)... She talks about the counselors' relationship and collaboration with union officials on employee matters. (11:49-13:13)... This segment consists of a discussion regarding the paperwork and records Laughlin provided during the interview. (13:13-17:39)... Lockheed employed nine counselors, three of whom were hired at Vega plants when the two companies merged. Laughlin supervised the counselors at Vega, but remembers that they approached the program with a different perspective than Lockheed counselors. (17:39-23:14)... As 1943 approached, more women were hired at Lockheed and Laughlin took on the responsibility of hiring and supervising new counselors. She also began working with John Canady, the head of public relations, who frequently asked Laughlin to speak to community agencies and women's groups about women in the workforce. Even though she occasionally encountered a hostile audience, she was able to change their opinions about working mothers by presenting a realistic view of women's responsibilities in the home and at work. In her own life, "each child had their hour in court every day and they were well fed and I cooked all night and did all kinds of things so that my home was disrupted as little as possible." (23:14-27:04)... Laughlin was a member of several women's clubs and community organizations, including the Women's Division of the Chamber of Commerce and the Metropolitan Board of the YWCA. She discusses the survey that was conducted to determine the need for childcare centers. While on the board of the YWCA, Laughlin and her counselors participated in a seminar during which they offered their services to women who were leaving the workforce and reentering the home. (27:04-29:31)... Her children attended both the Glendale and Burbank childcare centers while she was employed at Lockheed. She talks about the programs offered at the childcare centers and how her children benefited from their experiences there. (29:31-30:41)... The Women's Counselors from Lockheed and Vega attended scheduled meetings at which they exchanged ideas and discussed problems in their departments. Laughlin occasionally hired specialists to come and provide training seminars for the counselors. In addition to these meetings, Women's Counselors from other war production industries in the Los Angeles area met once a month to exchange information about their programs. End of tape. *** File: rrrslaughlin4.mp3 (0:00-1:45)... Laughlin was the chair of the Women's Counseling group [later named as Counseling Committee of the Aircraft Production Board] that met once a month to discuss their counseling programs. In addition to these meetings, counselors frequently visited each other's plants to observe the counseling activities taking place in the plant. Occasionally, Laughlin implemented policies being used in those counseling programs. (1:45-8:51)... There was never a need for counselors to make arrangements for production workers who wanted to transfer from one company to another. This did not occur because "You just didn't leave.... People interrogated you pretty strongly because you weren't supposed to leave. [War work] was supposed to be what you did." Most women at the plant, however, anticipated they would lose their job and go back home when the war ended. Laughlin talks about the YWCA seminar that established counseling services for women who wanted assistance readjusting to domestic life. Although the seminar was successful, the program ended after only three months because women failed to use the services as anticipated. Laughlin discusses the kinds of issues counselors expected while the YWCA program was in operation. She digresses regarding a "thank you" call she received ten years after she left Lockheed. (8:51-10:22)... Although some men sought assistance from the counselors, most were "pretty macho and thought they could handle their own things." It took a long time for male supervisors to accept the counselors because they viewed their presence in the plant as a threat to their authority. When they discovered that the counselors were there to help them, they became more comfortable with the women. (10:22-18:30)... Occasionally, Laughlin counseled women who implied that their husbands were not pleased they worked outside the home. Counselors talked to women about "how to handle your husband and how to handle your money" in an attempt to stave off conflicts at home. Laughlin brought practical knowledge and experience to the job because she also was dealing with similar problems at home. Her husband did not want her to work and probably felt that "it was his failure that made [her working] necessary and he didn't like to be reminded of it." Some of the counselors Laughlin hired took a more clinical approach to counseling in comparison to her empathetic approach. She told counselors that "collecting case histories" was not a function of the job. Lockheed appreciated Laughlin's approach to counseling and as long as she was in charge, the counselors were required to abide by her rules. She digresses regarding the backgrounds of the counselors at other aircraft companies, including Emily Cook, a counselor at Douglas. (18:30-21:16)... Lockheed counselors were doing as much or more than counselors at other aircraft companies. The purpose of the counseling meetings [Counseling Committee of the Aircraft Production Board] was to exchange ideas because "none of them felt that what they had was a finished product or sure that it was a good one." Counselors were a necessary component to war production industries because production employees did not have time to contact agencies in search of services. A counselor's focus was to "keep them [production workers] on the job" while helping them with everyday living issues. She digresses regarding the problems workers encountered with laundry facilities and how she helped resolve this issue. (21:16-22:14)... By the middle of 1943, Laughlin had compiled a large referral book of agencies and services in the community. Whenever a new counselor was hired at Lockheed, Laughlin provided her with that book. Over time, counselors secured additional resources and added those to Laughlin's guide. (22:14-24:21)... Counselors within aircraft production companies called themselves the Counseling Committee of the Aircraft Production Board. Meeting minutes were compiled during their board meetings, but these were not submitted to the Aircraft Production Board. The level of cooperation among aircraft companies was high because "no one knew what they were doing." Laughlin believes that the war years allowed the aircraft industry to progress and flourish in ways that would have normally taken twenty years. (24:21-27:55)... Even though a couple meetings were held to discuss demobilization, the idea did not preoccupy their thoughts because there "was a general understanding that everyone was going to go home. They were just waiting for their release." Counselors expected that they would lose their jobs after the war. They were not released until after the first bunch of women were laid off from Lockheed. The counseling program at Lockheed was phased out by the end of 1945. Laughlin stayed at Lockheed until 1946. John Canady asked her to move into public relations and work half day on community contacts and counseling. At that time, she was a member of twenty-two organizations and often in meetings. She wanted to stay at Lockheed, but her husband was persistent about her spending more time at home. (27:55-29:39)... Laughlin could not recall how many counselors worked at the Lockheed Maywood plant. Each counselor at Lockheed was assigned a certain amount of production workers to counsel. Laughlin had the authority to hire more counselors if and when a counselor's workload became too heavy. (29:39-30:32)... In this segment, the issue of extramarital affairs among women whose husbands were in the service is addressed. However, the interview ends before Laughlin comments on this issue. End of tape. *** File: rrrslaughlin5.mp3 (0:00-2:14)... Laughlin comments on the list of issues covered by counselors, which included childcare, pregnancy, housekeeping, and personal cleaning (personal hygiene). Laughlin took a no-nonsense approach when notifying women that their body odor was offensive to co-workers. (2:14-3:44)... Counselors were responsible for handling matters that took place in the restrooms. The ladies restrooms were supervised by matrons and they contacted a counselor whenever they encountered a woman having difficulty. The counselors were accepted among the women workers at Lockheed. Women initially thought, "Well, I certainly don't need that [counseling]," but as soon as they got to know the counselors they felt comfortable discussing their problems with them. (3:44-5:53)... Counselors frequently received complaints from women about difficulties they had working or communicating with male co-workers. Laughlin and her counselors resolved these issues by simply informing the supervisor of the problem. These matters were much easier to resolve if the counselors approached the men looking for answers and solutions to the problem rather than dictating what they should do. When new counselors were hired at the plant, Laughlin trained them for one week during which she outlined her general philosophy towards developing a line of communication with male supervisors. (5:53-7:56)... Laughlin discusses the process of finding housing for employees at Lockheed. She does not know if there were a high percentage of women who shared housing with other women with children for the dual purposes of affordability and childcare. A large majority of women relied on childcare services being provided at elementary schools. In certain areas, childcare centers were crowded and women were required to sign a waiting list. (7:56-9:12)... Also among the list of issues handled by counselors were certain legal matters, including housing legalities and divorce. Counselors referred workers to Lockheed's legal department and if further legal advice was required, employees were referred to attorneys in the community. (9:12-10:02)... Although a leave of absence was processed through supervisors and the personnel department, counselors occasionally were asked to make recommendations regarding the length of such absences, especially in cases dealing with maternity leave. (10:02-11:39)... Counselors were concerned about health and nutrition among the female workforce. Some women were simply too tired to eat and neglected their diets. These cases were either referred to them by nurses or counselors learned about health problems when they called women in with poor attendance records. Nutrition was discussed in the plant and the company did what was necessary to keep employees healthy. Laughlin recalls the study a doctor conducted in the plant on the impact of vitamins on workers' health. (11:39-16:06)... Laughlin encouraged women to stay on the job. Many had a difficult time adjusting to an industrial environment and wanted to quit half way through their workday. While she was still working in the medical division, she was visited by at least 100 workers in one day who were having difficulty adjusting to the conditions. Laughlin usually sent women home and told them to come back the next day and try to stay a little bit longer in an attempt to gradually ease them into the environment. Lockheed did not paint its machinery so that it could be easily identified by women. However, there were arrows on the floor to help guide people through production. (16:06-18:01)... Looking back, Laughlin was impressed by the "stamina and the intelligence and the common sense of the majority of the women" employed at Lockheed. The main purpose of the counseling program was to help women cope with the double burden of work and home. Many of the programs in use today were developed during the war. An integral element to that development was community outreach. (18:01-23:31)... Laughlin left Lockheed in 1946. She returned to the workforce in 1951, again, out of necessity because her husband lost his job. She describes the personnel positions she held after 1951. Her work at Lockheed prepared her for a career in personnel. Had she decided to continue working after she left Lockheed, there would have been many opportunities for her to choose from. When she returned to work, her husband learned to accept her decision to do so even when it was no longer necessary for her to work. She eventually learned how to negotiate with her husband so that he accepted her career responsibilities. End of tape.
- SUBJECT BIO - Susan Laughlin began working at Lockheed in the early days of the war. Although she had been a full time homemaker since the birth of her first child, when her husband lost his job, she applied at Lockheed. Initially hired in the medical division, the personnel manager was very impressed with her "people skills" and assigned her to the position of Women's Counselor when the program was initiated. Eventually, she coordinated the program at the several Lockheed plants, which ultimately included seventy five counselors. She also played an important role in the industry wide network of Counselors. When the war ended, Laughlin engaged in community programs designed to help women adjust to postwar life. She resigned in 1946 and returned to full-time homemaking until 1951, when she again joined the workforce. Laughlin had written a note to project director, Sherna Berger Gluck, in response to a Los Angeles Times article on the Rose the Riveter project. One month later, Gluck interviewed her in sunny, Laguna Beach home. At the time she was the owner of a gift shop and had few free days, However, she was very interested in the project and eagerly shared her memories and the various documents that she had saved. TOPICS - work force composition; previous work experience; employment in medical unit at Lockheed; development of women's counseling program at Lockheed; production work; gender relations; working conditions; restroom faciwomen's counseling program; labor force demographics; counseling role and responsibilities; counseling cases; medical facilities at Lockheed; Davidson, Louise; race relations; and counseling program practices;counseling program practices and administration; counseling program at Vega; collaboration with labor unions; Canady, John; attitudes towards working mothers; participation in women's clubs and community organizaCounseling Committee of the Aircraft Production Board; postwar attitudes towards women and work; YWCA seminar; demobilization; gender relations; counseling practice; marital relationship; gender roles; and postwarcounselors roles; gender relations; restroom matrons; childcare; reflections on career at Lockheed; employment history after 1951; and marital relationship;
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