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Butler, Jesse Haver (audio interview #11 of 11)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This interview took place almost 10 months after Butler's closing interview of May 16, 1973. Butler requested that this interview be conducted to discuss some issues she believed were not covered in previous sessions. She referred to three pages of notes during the interview. As the interview progressed, it became apparent that several of the topics she wanted to discuss had been detailed in earlier interviews. During the latter part of the interview, her granddaughter joined her for the interview. 1974-03-16
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- 2020-01-29
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- *** File: sufjhbutler17.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-1:51)... Tape introduction (1:51-6:53)... She discusses the goals of her life, the first of which was to obtain an education at her mother's suggestion. Her second goal was to live a long and fulfilling life, a goal that was developed as a result of a psychology lecture she attended while at Smith College on the subject of aging. She recalls a lecture given by the 80 year old women who was the editor of McCalls; this woman made her believe that she could also be active at an old age. Her final goal was to be a good mother and wife while maintaining an active career and public life. She became dedicated to combining her household responsibilities with her public activities. These goals assisted her in creating a successful career and life. (6:53-7:54)... Butler believes that American women are very possessive and domineering regarding their families, believing that they should take sole responsibility for the care of their homes and children. This results in inactivity in other areas. Also, women spend so much time dedicating themselves to their homes and children that they often neglect their husbands, which may cause men to have affairs with other women. (7:54-11:25)... When she moved to England, it became perfectly obvious to her that women there advocated domestic assistance with their home and children. After she gave birth to her children, she advertised for a governess. She took the responses to her advertisement to a handwriting specialist lecturing at the American Woman's Club and paid him $25 to analyze the letters. As a result, she hired a 60-year-old woman who appeared very intelligent and qualified to care for her children. Unfortunately, on her first day, the governess accidentally dropped her son on the floor. When Butler returned to the handwriting specialist and informed him of the governess' carelessness, he told her that the governess was simply nervous and that Butler needed to "mother" this woman. She thought this was a joke because she was having a difficult enough time mothering her own children. She followed his advice, and the governess quickly became a successful caretaker of her children. (11:25-15:09)... The governess was very efficient in her job and knew how to handle children very well, especially in controlling Butler's daughter who successfully manipulated her. (15:09-19:14)... Butler describes the way that governess cared for the children; she disciplined the children so that they would understand the meaning and repercussions of their actions. In the evenings, the governess would report to Butler what occurred with the children during her care and the solutions she developed when the children misbehaved. She believes that American women often discuss their children with other adults as if the children are not there, recounting an incident in Needham, Massachusetts when she was in the street with her son and ran into a club woman. In England, children are taught to communicate at a very early age, which is why they are poised and expressive. (19:14-22:25)... For two years, she enrolled in the Fabian summer school program in England and sat at a table with George Bernard Shaw. She recalls hearing a lecture on the child care centers in Russia, in which children were enrolled at 6 months old. The children were taught words, meanings, and how to express themselves at a very early age. She recalls that Russian people involved with the government often learn the languages of other nations prior to traveling there to represent Russia. In contrast, Americans expect other nations to learn English and often have problems communicating with other countries. It is a cultural tragedy that America neglects the spoken work. (22:25-24:45)... She reads a statement made by President Nixon in the Progress Bulletin dated Friday, March 22, 1974, regarding the Russian nation and nuclear war. According to Butler, the president was saying that if America does not trade or communicate with Russians, there would continue to be problems between the two nations. In addition, successful negotiations could occur with the Soviet Union without approving of the government's ideology. (24:45-27:51)... When she married her husband, she believed she was superior because, unlike him, she had a college education. However, throughout their lifetime, her husband was employed in several important capacities, including Trade Commissioner for the Department of Commerce at the American Embassy in London. She became further humbled by her husband when he wrote a 940-page book on the industrial, commercial, and financial system of the United Kingdom, which the British government sent to all of it agencies all over the world. As she reflects on her life and her marriage, she is proud to have married such a successful and intelligent man, and for running an efficient home so that her husband had a stable and comfortable environment, enabling him to continue his laborious positions with the American government. (27:51-33:04)... When they moved to Needham, Massachusetts after living in England for eight years, she and her husband had to adjust to the United States all over again. She was very disappointed in the school system in Needham because the superintendent was unwilling to improve the schools in the city. She recalls learning that whenever members of the community attempted to vote him out of office, he spread negative rumors and ruined their reputations within the community. The community did not have a self-sufficient parent teacher organization because the superintendent organized and operated the only one that existed and everyone in the community was afraid to challenge his authority. The superintendent also made a policy that teachers could not rent rooms from people in the community that did not support his office. Ultimately, a woman within the community gathered enough support to run for the school board and when elected , she was successful in voting this superintendent out of office. (33:04-34:18)... As a result of her efforts in improving the school system in Needham, she believes that she developed a serious ear ailment that ultimately required an operation, causing her to lose the hearing in her left ear. She believes that this ailment occurred because she got mixed up in an crooked situation with regard to voting the superintendent of schools out of office. Even though people in the community were grateful for her assistance, she learned that it was not a good idea for her to be involved in political situations that compromise her family and her personal life. (34:18-38:54)... While living in Needham, Massachusetts, she met Leslie Cutler, who later decided to run for the state legislature. At the time, there were no women legislators in the state. Mrs. Cutler attended MIT and took one of the first courses on public health at that institution. However, she was not a good public speaker, so when Butler paid her a visit and suggested that she enroll in her public speaking course. At the time, Butler had not received any additional training outside of what she learned from Madame d'Esterre in England. Mrs. Cutler agreed to take two courses in public speaking and was elected to the state legislature. Cutler was later elected to the state Senate and served in office for 20 years, introducing many bills that directly benefited women and children. (38:54-42:44)... When she attempted to get her book republished in paperwork, she wrote Leslie Cutler who sent her $1,000 to help the effort. Cutler was indebted to Butler for teaching her how to speak and think on her feet. Three days after Cutler sent the check, she died. She was 80 years old. She was the only woman of the hundreds Butler taught who took the time to thank her on a regular basis for her instruction. (42:44-44:51)... She and her husband purchased a cabin in the Shenandoah Mountains, where they went every weekend while working in Washington, DC. When they arrived at the cabin, their "hillbilly" neighbors brought them food from their gardens. Her husband always brought work with him, but never got around to doing any of it. However, on the way home from the mountains, the answer to the problem he was supposed to be working on over the weekend came to him. end of tape *** File: sufjhbutler18.mp3 (0:00-2:17)... While at their cabin in the Shenandoah Mountains, she decided to host a party for the women in the community. She was grateful to them because they supplied her with a lot of food from their gardens and their children often cleaned her house for a small fee. Initially, the women seemed very uncomfortable and did not want to talk. However, she read a story entitled, "Have You Slept with My Husband," which detailed a woman's experience with her husband's nightly sleep disorders. interruption in tape (2:17-4:54)... Although, the women tried to contain their amusement with the story, they burst out laughing like they had never laughed before. One of the women clutched her breast when she laughed because her breast was full with milk. Butler took this woman into the kitchen and taught her how to manually pump her breasts so that she could empty them between feedings. The women were very impressed with Butler for teaching their friend how to pump her breasts. Whenever she ran into a woman in the community, they talked and laughed about the story Butler read. The story circulated the entire countryside and she never needed groceries again because her neighbors took very good care of her. (4:54-8:17)... When her husband began showing signs of strain and illness, she decided to give up her career so that her husband could retire. However, they did not want to retire in Washington, DC because the weather was very bad for people with illnesses. Initially, they went to Florida, but did not like it there and decided to move to California. They moved into a housing project in California and for the first time in her life, she had to cook. It was difficult to be cooped up in a small house with no careers. Their marriage began to suffer and they sought treatment with Dr. Papanow, which saved their marriage. She was more than 64 years old at the time. (8:17-10:16)... Her husband decided to go to Mexico to recover from his illnesses. While he was away, she began writing her autobiography. In 1952, she and her husband discovered a new religion and have spent 18 years studying and learning this religion. At the time of the interview they had been married for 54 years. Their marriage was successful because they had their own identities and careers. She is proud to have married such a brilliant man. She added to his life by making it comfortable for him so that he could stand the strain of working for the United States government. end of tape
- SUBJECT BIO - Jesse Haver Butler served as a lobbyist for the National Consumers League in Washington, D.C. during which time she came into contact with activists in the National Woman's Party. In 1919-1920, she toured the western states with Carrie Chapman Catt during the ratification drive for the woman's suffrage amendment. Raised on a ranch in Colorado, Butler was determined to attend Smith College. She graduated from there in 1918 and went to work for first for the Massachusetts Minimum Wage and then moved to Washington D.C. to serve as a lobbyist for the National Consumers League. In Washington, she ate lunch regularly at the National Women's Party headquarters, and came into contact with many of the women involved with the picketing of the White House. After she toured the western states with Carrie Chapman Catt during the ratification drive for the woman's suffrage amendment, she married and went with her husband to England. On her return to the US, she began a new career, teaching public speaking to women. A full life history of approximately 12 hours was recorded with Butler, between November 1972 and the spring of 1973, when she was 88 years old, in her apartment in a retirement community in LaVerne, California. She had come to public attention as a result of her participation in the 1970 celebration of women's suffrage. A woman of commanding presence, with a vigorous voice and persona, Butler was highly committed to the goals of the Feminist History Research Project and to the women's liberation movement. In the course of the several years following the interview, she regularly spoke on college campuses and to women's groups and remained very involved working on child care issues with the local chapter of NOW. TOPICS - Topics covered on this side of the tape include Butler's reflections on her life; her attitudes toward American women and childrearing; and her activities in England; Much of the discussion repeats material covered in earlier interviews;Topics covered on this side of the tape include Butler's social relationships with the women in the Shenandoah Mountains; and her reflections on her life and marriage;
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