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Hill, Fanny Christina (audio interview #2 of 4)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the second of four interviews with Tina Hill recorded in her home in central Los Angeles. Hill was an eager participant, determined to get the Black woman's story told. before, she basically directed the interviews and needed little coaxing, both giving details of her life experiences and also providing commentaries on them. 7/6/1980
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- SUBJECT BIO - Like many African American women, Tina Hill, as she liked to be called, had been working as a domestic before getting a job at North American Aviation in 1943. In fact, she often quoted the refrain that "Hitler was the one that got" Black women out of the white folks' kitchen, a quote that she initially attributed to her sister. Hill, the last of five children, was born in Texas in the house that her grandfather built when he came out of slavery. Although the family was poor, they had their own garden and raised chickens and were never without food. After her mother remarried, when she was six years old, the family moved to land adjacent to the Negro Vocational College in Prairie View. She attended classes there from the primary grades through the first two years of college until she was forced to drop out when she was twenty. After that, for the next five years she worked as a domestic, first in Texas and then in 1940, in California. She returned to Texas to marry and by the time she came back to Los Angeles, jobs were opening for Black women in the defense industry. At the time of the massive layoffs at war's end, she was on maternity leave, but returned to North American in 1946 and remained there until her retirement in 1980. The interviews were conducted in the living room of her rather large home in central Los Angeles, where her quilting frame was set up. Every time that Fischer visited, Hill showed her something about her life and culture, including the flowers grown from seeds harvested from Hill's grandmother's garden. Hill knew her story was an important one and she wanted to be sure that the Black women's experience was told. Candid and oftentimes humorous, she nevertheless took the interview very seriously. She was in the process of retiring when the interviews were begun and by the time the process was over, she realized that it also helped her to figure out what she wanted to do with the rest of her life. She remained eager to tell her story and whenever the media contacted Sherna Gluck - usually around various wartime anniversaries - Hill was always ready willing to talk with them, often reciting the quote about Hitler which she no longer attributed to her sister. She maintained contact with Gluck over the years and they spoke over the phone periodically until a few years before her death. TOPICS - Black history, cultural values, celebrations; miscegenation; race relations; race relations; husband; living conditions and living arrangements; rationing during WWII; family history; and carpooling to work;North American application process; training and job skills; impressions of plant; working conditions; job responsibilities; racial discrimination; job discrimination; labor force demographics; race relations; wagehousing and living arrangements; job responsibilities; unionism; working conditions; work breaks; work clothing; safety guidelines; racial discrimination; race relations; and gender relations;job responsibilities; company services at North American; Women's Counselors; company activities; social clubs; working conditions; economic status; wages; husband; childbirth; social activities; patriotism; racial
- *** File: rrrthill5.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-5:59)... When Hill was growing up in Texas, Blacks celebrated the nineteenth of June to honor their freedom from slavery. They called this celebration "Juneteenth." Hill describes the activities that took place during this celebration. Whites in the community complained about the celebration because they wanted Blacks to hide the history of enslavement from their children. Although the celebration of Juneteenth slowed down for a period, it experienced a rebirth during the "Black is Beautiful" movement. While working at North American, Hill took this day off to celebrate her heritage. (5:59-14:47)... Hill discusses inter-racial relationships on her mother's side of the family. Hill's great grandfather cared for her Black grandmother and children. They lived near his plantation and he sent them to school and provided them with land. She believes that the children of White men fared far better. Many of her light-skinned relatives married other light-skinned Blacks and "their children eventually turned white." She believes that light-skinned Blacks marry each other because they think their lives will be easier. However, Hill feels that she "went against the grain" when she married a light-skinned Black. She also discusses the discrimination that occurs between light-skinned and dark-skinned Blacks. (14:47-16:25)... Hill married a light-skinned Black. He was raised by his grandmother and attended college for two years. He was not an ambitious man and found it difficult to find job opportunities in Tyler, Texas. He married Hill because she could take care of herself and did not expect anything from him. They were married for thirty years. (16:25-25:42)... Hill returned to Los Angeles from Texas in 1943. She learned about job opportunities at North American through her sister who was employed at Douglas Aircraft. At the time, Hill and her sister were renting a room in a two-bedroom home in east Los Angeles. They paid six dollars a week in rent. Another woman was living on the porch and Hill and her sister shared a room. They shared kitchen space and they did not have any problems with their living arrangements. Hill explains that Blacks were accustomed to living with people in small quarters. (25:42-27:27)... Hill was not affected by food rationing during WWII. She occasionally had to substitute ingredients in certain recipes and use margarine instead of butter. She periodically visited relatives in Etiwanda, California and got butter from their cow. There were usually coupons for shoes and sugar; however, she did not use these coupons all of the time because she did not want to have an excess of these items. (27:27-29:13)... Hill's sister worked at Douglas, El Segundo. She and her sister paid about $1.50 a week to ride to work with co-workers. It was slightly less expensive to ride the streetcar, but Hill preferred riding to work in someone's car. End of tape. *** File: rrrthill6.mp3 (0:00-4:24)... Hill decided to apply at North American because it was near her home. She rode the streetcar to the main plant and filled out an application. She took a test that involved placing pegs on a board. She was then sent to a training facility located on Figueroa. She does not remember receiving a physical but believes it was a requirement of the application process. When she applied at North American, there were other men and women of varying ages also applying for positions. There was one other Black woman hired at the same time as Hill. (4:24-7:19)... Hill was familiar with basic household and gardening tools prior to receiving training at North American. While attending a vocational school in Texas, she watched men work in the trades of blacksmithing and shoemaking. Because of these experiences, she was not afraid to work with tools. She was looking forward to the occupational change because it meant that she would earn more money. Her starting wage was .60 cents an hour and she was paid while in training. The training facility was located in a large building on Figueroa in Los Angeles There were men and women of varying races receiving training at the facility while she was there. (7:19-9:50)... Hill noticed differences in the way that Blacks and Whites were treated at North American. Initially, she did not complain about this treatment and cooperated so that she could earn a living. There were between fifteen and twenty departments at North American. She believes that all of the Black employees were sent to work in Department 17, which was mainly bucking and riveting work. Many of the White women were sent to departments where the work was not as strenuous. She did not like this work and requested a transfer, which was ignored by her supervisor. She quit and was advised by union officials to return to the plant, at which time she was assigned to do bench work in a different department. (9:50-12:24)... Hill received training for four weeks, during which time she was taught how to drill holes and how to shoot and buck rivets among other things. She was a fast learner and a good student. However, it did not matter how skilled she was because "you just don't get the breaks if you are not the right color." It was inevitable that she would end up in the "snake pit" regardless of her skills. Employees were required to purchase a set of basic tools and a toolbox. Employees also checked certain tools from the company tool shed. (12:24-15:11)... When Hill left the training facility, she was assigned to work in the "snake pit." She accepted her assignment because she was only interested in making money. She earned .60 cents an hour and received a raise every three months. Whenever an employee reached their salary cap, they were assigned to work in a new field. The environment in the main plant was very similar to the training facility in terms of the noise level and type of work. However, there were substantially more people working at the main plant than at the training facility. She was required to show an identification badge when she entered the plant and her lunch was inspected. (15:11-20:04)... Hill's first job classification was "general helper." She worked on the wing of the plane with approximately twenty employees. When she first started at the main plant, she was taken to the department and introduced to another woman who showed Hill what to do. Hill believes there were more Whites than Blacks hired into "production" jobs. Most Black men were assigned to janitorial positions at North American. She was eventually transferred into bench work and then "plastics," where she remained until she left North American towards the end of the war. (20:04-27:00)... The company discouraged interaction between Black and white employees. Whenever a leadman taught Hill new skills, he was transferred to another department. While White employees were transferred into better positions, Blacks were kept from advancing. When her husband expressed interest in obtaining a position at North American in 1944, she discouraged him because of the poor treatment Blacks received. She changed her opinion of the company after confronting a foreman for treating her unfairly. He offered to help her husband get a job at North American to make amends for his actions. Her husband began working at North American in 1951. (27:00-28:13)... During the war, her husband was stationed in northern California. He was never in active duty overseas. When Hill started working at North American, she rode the streetcar to work. She then started carpooling to work with co-workers. She paid the driver $1.50 per week to take her to and from work. End of tape. *** File: rrrthill7.mp3 (0:00-1:31)... Hill describes a typical day in her life when she was working at North American. She worked ten hours a day, five days a week during the war period. (1:31-4:12)... In 1943, Hill and her sister decided to purchase a piece of property located on Compton Avenue. The lot they purchased included two houses. Hill and her sister stayed in the one-bedroom home in the rear and rented the front house. Hill lived in this house for two and a half years. When her daughter was born, her sister moved into the front house and Hill and her family stayed in the one-bedroom house in the rear. (4:12-6:19)... When Hill reported to work, she went to her assigned area. The leadman checked in with each employee and gave him or her an assignment. However, employees generally knew what tasks they needed to complete during the workday. After work, she went grocery shopping or went home and completed typical household tasks. Her job was not physically tiring. She did not like her first assignment of riveting and bucking and was eventually assigned to bench work assembling small parts. (6:19-7:27)... Hill joined the UAW while she was employed at North American. She felt that the union was beneficial because it mediated grievances and provided employees with the opportunity to "talk back" to their employers. She attended a few union meetings, but was never active in the union. (7:27-9:22)... Hill did not like riveting and bucking because of the working conditions. She transferred into bench work, during which she worked on small parts. She describes her responsibilities while working in this capacity. (9:22-10:40)... Workers received two ten-minute breaks, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. There were seats in the aisle for employees to sit during their breaks. The company had vending machines that sold candy. Another reason why Hill did not like the job riveting and bucking was because there were no places to sit during breaks. She wanted to work in a department where seating was not a problem for the employees. Employees had a small drawer where they could keep their personal effects. She usually kept her purse in this drawer or near her while she worked. (10:40-14:20)... Women workers were required to wear pants, a blouse, and closed-toed shoes. Hill did not like wearing pants. They wore safety glasses and a hat that had a net in the back and a bib in the front. The lead men gave "tickets" to women who did not have their hair covered. There was a company store at North American that sold work attire and safety materials. (14:20-15:26)... There were some lockers available for people who wanted to store their belongings. There were not any problems with tools being stolen and the lockers were was not necessary. There was a couch in the woman's restroom in case women wanted to rest during breaks. (15:26-20:31)... Hill had some experience working in environments with many people. However, North American was the first factory job she ever had. (20:31-24:59)... During the war years, there were altercations between Black and White workers at North American. Some White employees were fired because they objected to working with Blacks. The Black men went on strike to dispute their treatment at the plant. The strike only lasted for a couple hours before the company conceded to their wishes. Discriminatory policies were not changed unless Blacks complained about the way they were treated. (24:59-27:57)... The men at North American did not resent the women who worked at the plant. However, she believes that men generally did not like women who were too independent or who made more money than them. Men and women who worked at the plant dated and quite a few marriages resulted from those courtships. (27:57-29:54)... Hill describes her responsibilities when she worked on the tail section of a bomber airplane. End of tape. *** File: rrrthill8.mp3 (0:00-1:56)... Hill eventually learned that if she did not like a particular job, she could pretend she did not know how to do the task and the foreman would send her to a different department. (1:56-4:54)... North American offered many services to its employees. The Welfare Department assisted employees with legal advice and economic planning, among other things. There was a Women's Counselor, Mrs. Camel, who helped Hill plan her husband's funeral when he died. (4:54-8:06)... The Inglewood plant constructed a recreational building that was equipped with a gymnasium and areas for picnics and sporting activities. The company sponsored several different social clubs. North American provided employees with discounted tickets to tourist attractions and local amusement parks. (8:06-10:01)... The safety precautions at North American were satisfactory. Certain departments prohibited entrance without safety glasses and hazardous machinery was labeled. The plant was well lit and Hill did not experience problems with the temperature. The major problem for her while working at North American was the noise level. (10:01-11:35)... The building in which Hill worked was large. Departments located on the same floor were divided with partitions and the building was multi-storied. Parts were moved in and outside departments through dollies. The security in her department was not an issue because they were not working on anything secretive. Employees had a roving badge that they wore to move within their department, but employees could not go into other departments without a pass. (11:35-14:01)... When Hill began working at North American during the war, she did not intend on working there past the war. After the war, she thought about going to college and pursuing a career in nursing. However, she was never laid off and decided to keep her job for as long as possible. Her wages at North American were substantially more than she had received in previous jobs. She also received $50 a month from her husband who was in the service. She planned to purchase a home and a car with her earnings. (14:01-16:48)... Hill's husband returned from the service in 1944. He found work as a presser in the cleaning business, earning $1.25 per hour, the same wage as men working at North American. However, he did not receive insurance or other company benefits and was not protected by a union. Hill got pregnant in September 1944 and left North American in March 1945 to have her child. She gave birth to her daughter, Beverly, in a hospital in Los Angeles. (16:48-17:41)... Prior to her husband moving to California, Hill and her sister spent their days off doing things around the house and working in the garden. They often took the streetcar downtown and went to the movies. (17:41-21:39)... North American organized entertainment during lunch breaks in an area of the plant called the "Bandstand." She believes that the entertainers talked about patriotism. The company handed out literature and the company newspaper, Skywriter , published articles that "brainwashed" employees into believing their jobs were necessary for the war effort. Though she never got caught up in the patriotic spirit, she believes that the war improved her life. Her sister often commented that while Abraham Lincoln freed Blacks, Adolph Hitler got Blacks out of "white folks' kitchen." (21:39-26:40)... Hill discusses job discrimination at North American. Black men were placed in the worse jobs at the plant. She believes that Black women fared better because they were not capable of working in certain positions that required more strength. Blacks were denied access to many of the jobs that were not labor intensive. End of tape.
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