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Rozner, Sarah (audio interview #6 of 20)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the fourteenth interview with Sarah Rozner conducted in Rozner's home. In the very beginning of the interview, Rozner was not feeling well, after having a bad night. Despite this, she insisted on carrying on with the interview. However, towards the end of the interview she seemed tired and the interview was concluded. TOPICS - attitude towards the Soviet Union, the Russian Revolution, and Russian rulers; attitudes toward Emma Goldman, communists; relationship with leaders in the union; and the election and appointment process of union representatives;the election and appointment process of union representatives; formation of the CIO; retirement; changes in the union; and miscellaneous personal comments; Note: the audio quality towards the latter part of this segment is very poor; 11/6/1973
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- 2020-04-05
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- SUBJECT BIO - Sarah Rozner joined the ranks of the labor movement the minute she set foot on US soil and began working in men's clothing in Chicago just prior to the 1910 strike. She organized practically every shop in which she worked - unless she was fired first - and was particularly interested in mobilizing women and helping them to assert their rights. Her woman/feminist consciousness led her to work on the establishment of a Woman's Local of the ACWA in Chicago (Local 275). She worked with other women in the ACWA to establish a Woman's Bureau, but did not succeed. She became one of the first women Business Agents in tailoring in Chicago in 1921, and held various positions in the shops and in the union. When she moved to Los Angeles in 1938, she continued to organize at the shop level, establishing education programs for workers at Louart. She continued to advocate for women, and when she retired in 1959, she established a scholarship for women. Even after her retirement, Rozner remained involved with the union, became a member of CLUW (Coalition of Labor Women) after its formation, and remained outspoken on women's issues, particularly in the labor movement. The interviews with Rozner totaled almost hours, divided fairly evenly between her activities in Chicago and in Los Angeles. She was interviewed as part of the Feminist History Research Project labor series, referred by the ACWA. INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the fourteenth interview with Sarah Rozner conducted in Rozner's home. In the very beginning of the interview, Rozner was not feeling well, after having a bad night. Despite this, she insisted on carrying on with the interview. However, towards the end of the interview she seemed tired and the interview was concluded. TOPICS - attitude towards the Soviet Union, the Russian Revolution, and Russian rulers; attitudes toward Emma Goldman, communists; relationship with leaders in the union; and the election and appointment process of union representatives;the election and appointment process of union representatives; formation of the CIO; retirement; changes in the union; and miscellaneous personal comments; Note: the audio quality towards the latter part of this segment is very poor;
- File: lhgwsrozner27.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-2:14)... Tape introduction. (2:14-12:11)... After the Russian Revolution, she coordinated a trip with several union people to the Soviet Union. The trip was financed individually and they also purchased several machines to take to the Soviet Union. The trip was canceled, which was a blessing, because she was not a citizen and most likely would have had difficulty returning to the US. When V.I. Lenin came into power, she disavowed her allegiance to the Soviet Union. She recalls hearing a lecture by Emma Goldman at the Chicago Opera House, which confirmed Rozner's beliefs that Lenin, Trotsky, Hitler and Mussolini were all in the same category. She views Goldman as a symbol. Although Rozner does not describe herself as a "women's libber" or "crazy feminist," she always protected women and often defended Goldman's philosophies. (12:11-16:11)... After 1922, the ACWA limited its support of the Soviet Union. The union did not officially support the Needle Trades Alliance, but tolerated its existence. Ultimately, people were given an ultimatum that they were either with the Communist Party or the ACWA. Following the split with the Communist Party, she joined the Socialist Party; she did not want to have anything to do with the Trotskyites or the Leninists. When the split between Frank Rosenblum and Sam Levine happened, Hillman appealed to the communists and endorsed William Z. Foster - even though neither Hillman nor Levine were communists. (16:11-25:50)... Although there were other people in the ACWA with a moral character, Scholssberg, Levine, and Miller stand out above all others in her mind. In contrast, Rosenblum orchestrated some unconscionable things and Charlie Weinstein put a lot of obstacles in front of Rozner when she introduced the resolution for a Women's Local. Schlossberg, on the other hand, was very supportive and happy when a scholarship was introduced in Rozner's honor. Mark Starr, the husband of Helen Gates Starr also supported Rozner's advancement within the union. [Note: on another occassion, Rozner refers to her correctly as Helen Norton Starr] But even among these men, none openly supported or encouraged women in the ACWA. Levine silently supported the existence of the Women's Local by sanctioning its charter. She digresses into a discussion on the recent discrimination lawsuits filed by women in the ACWA. She also discusses meeting Ann Draper at a labor convention in 1964, at which time Rozner told Draper about the "silent protest," but Draper was ambivalent towards Rozner and disagreed that there was any silent protest in the ACWA. (25:50-28:59)... She believes that the formation of the Women's Local in Rochester was spurred as a result of a Jewish woman being killed during a strike around 1916. Sadie Goodman and Rose Reiker were active in this local in 1925-26. The Women's Local in Rochester was very strong, unlike the one in New York, where women were not permitted to work as machine operators. Rozner made contact with women from other cities through the ACWA conventions and by personally contacting them. (28:59-31:41)... Although Levine was willing to support the Women's Local in Chicago, there were people around him that tied his hands. Rozner jumps to more recent history and talks about receiving a letter from Clara Leon before she died in which Leon talked about wanting women to make a contribution. However, Leon did not mention anything about training a woman to take her position in the Chicago Women's Local. Rozner believes that this unwillingness to train a successor led to the demise of the Women's Local. In fact, the ACWA eliminated most of the small Locals within the union. (31:41-37:46)... In Chicago, the only women Business Agents were Bessie Abramovitz Hillman, Rozner, and Clara Leon. Hillman worked for the Vest Makers and Rozner managed the Coat Makers. Leon worked for the Women's Local until she died. She maintains that there were no other women Business Agents after she left Chicago. She believes that if women coordinated their efforts they could get whatever they wanted from the union and would not have to resort to outside efforts, such as filing lawsuits. Women are the majority in the union, and while officials come and go, the workers remain. She believes that women today are more sophisticated, as is the opposition. Women are usually no longer told to go home and do the dishes if they are active. However, Rozner does not agree with the lawsuits filed by women against the ACWA for discrimination, and would like to see this fight waged within the union. She had several opportunities to seek outside assistance to oppose the union, but she did not want to dishonor it. (37:46-43:06)... As a Business Agent, she was elected by the Joint Board and represented both men and women in the shops. Every Local was entitled to a Business Agent. She recalls that in other cities, women were appointed to the position of Business Agent. At the end of the year, she decided to leave the position, but Levine begged her to stay. She was tired of the abuse she endured and her main purpose in becoming a Business Agent was to break ground for women. She digresses into a discussion regarding Leon, indicating that union officials liked Leon as a Business Agent; however, Rozner believes that she did not work towards an ideal or goal, and she was a "yes man." Rozner was not a follower and did not like people dictating to her. end of tape File: lhgwsrozner28.mp3 (0:00-7:48)... In general, people are appointed to union positions. For instance, when a manager dies or retires, a manager from a different city is brought in to serve in that particular Local. When a Business Agent dies or retires, the Joint Board and the Executive Board appoints someone and endorses their candidacy for the upcoming election. There is usually no opposition in these cases and this person is elected by the Local. In the early days, the rank and file had some power, which has decreased over time. She digresses and talks about some of the internal conflicts in United Mine Workers in 1920-1922 when several workers were killed during a strike against Lewis. She recalls that Hillman once compared the miners' struggle with the workers in the ACWA. When he later invited Lewis to speak to the workers in the shops, she confronted Hillman about this ideological discrepancy. He simply commented that people can change. Hillman and the ACWA switched to supporting men like Lewis when the CIO was formed. (7:48-15:12)... She attended the meeting in San Francisco when the CIO and the AFL merged (in the 1950s). Earlier, in the 1930s, she believed the labor movement would benefit from the formation of the CIO, and that one day there would be a united labor movement. Rosenblum and others believed that the union would remain divided because it would be too difficult to unite all of the workers. For instance, it was not reasonable to expect teamsters to enter the Dress Makers Local. However, one, united voice was needed to combat anti-labor enemies. (15:12-29:41)... When she retired in 1958 she did not want to discontinue her activities with the union. If her health permitted, she wanted to participate in picketing and attend union meetings. She also wanted to speak to Locals and address the workers on strike, but union officials did not like her ways. She thought about creating a scholarship program when she was still working at the shop. She wanted to continue the kind of education in the ACWA that she started at Louart. Her primary focus for the scholarship was Black women because there was a necessity for someone to represent their needs in the union. Initially, she specified that the recipient of the scholarship be a Black, Japanese (Editor's note: she probably means Chinese) or Mexican woman. However, the union told her this was discriminatory. There were no other scholarships available in the union at this time. She donated $500 to the scholarship fund and each Local was expected to contribute more money to the program. Interruption in tape Rozner believes that there were two scholarships awarded to women and then the program died; apparently no committee was established to continue the program or raise more money for it. (29:41-32:33)... She believes that members of the union became lax in their enthusiasm for change because people began to prosper. In fact, many of the people who she had influenced probably will never walk a picket line in their lives. Nevertheless, believes that she reached some people and helped build their consciousness. Interruption in tape (32:33-36:14)... This segment begins with a discussion of a woman who took Rozner to a surprise party. However, there is no detailed information about these events. Interruption in tape. She also discusses an intimate relationship with a man she met outside a shop in Chicago; however, she does not provide very much detail of this encounter. The two obviously corresponded and although she refers to their correspondence she refuses to read part of one of their letters on tape. Apparently it was about her first sexual encounter in 1929. Although this man was once a member of the union, when she became involved with him he was no longer a member. interruption in tape (36:14-43:03)... This segment includes various miscellaneous topics, including her sleeping habits, cooking, food tastes and other small talk unrelated to the ACWA. There are several points in this segments, particularly in the discussion of age, where it is difficult to hear the conversation because the sound is either too low, or there is background noise. End of tape.
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