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(Kaplan) Spitzer, Lottie (audio interview #4 of 9)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is one of eight interviews with Lottie Kaplan Spitzer conducted over the course of four months as part of a Senior Honors project in collaboration with the Feminist History Research Project. Spitzer was very cooperative, but also a bit guarded, since she thought the interviewer was affiliated with the union (ACWA). The interviews were conducted at the ACWA Retirees Center, which probably helped Spitzer to remember and focus on her union experiences. On the other hand, it might have reinforced only positive sentiments about the union, particularly since at the time of the interview visits there constituted Spitzer's main social excursion. There is a great deal of overlap and repetitiousness between the interviews, partially because of Spitzer's tendency to go off into different directions in response to the interviewer's question. Clearly, certain events and people represent more salient memories and these are the ones she tends to repeat. Despite some of the repetitiousness, however, the interviews provide a nice picture of the kind of grass roots union organizing that women like her carried out, especially in the 1910s. TOPICS - blacklisting by Manufacturer's Association; organizing non-union shop during strike; 1918 strike; increase in ACWA membership in Chicago; ACWA organizing in New York; job at Hart, Schaffner & Marx; working conditions; operations at Hart, Schaffner & Marx; wages; friends and social life; classism; first husband's background; anti-Semitism in Russia; husband's work history in New York and Chicago; husband's conscientious objector status, WWI;husband's injuries in military; living arrangements; pregnancy and childbirth; medical care; operating position at Sears & Roebuck; working conditions; wages; job responsibilities; political education in Russia; SP; ACWA political education and campaigning; anarchism; factional struggles in ACWA ;SP activities; political education and activism; organizing CIO; pastimes; Sarah Rozner; Clara Leon; suffrage march, 1914-15; Hull House; domestic life; family fur business;children; returning to work, 1936; Mandel Brothers Department Store; wages; Boston Department Store; bundle system and inequitable distribution of work at Hart, Schaffner & Marx; working conditions; work environment; friends; job at Bonds Clothing Store; and wage discrimination; 9/3/1974
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- SUBJECT BIO - Lottie Kaplan Spitzer was an ardent union activist, who organized the shop where she was working in Chicago during the 1915 strike. Born in Kobrin, Russia, the oldest of six children in a relatively affluent family, she emigrated to the US with a friend when she was almost thirteen years old. A cousin in Fall River, Massachusetts, who hoped to marry her, sent her a boat ticket. She worked in his jewelry store briefly and then decided to go to work in an overall factory, to the dismay of her class conscious family. Unhappy in Fall River, once she found a wife for her cousin, she moved to Chicago at the invitation of an aunt. She went to work almost immediately in the garment industry and began organizing the non-union shop where she worked. She continued to organize and advocate for the union for the next three years. From 1918-1935 she was out of the waged labor force, working with her husband, Saul Zeiman, in the several different ventures they tried running a fur coat shop. She returned to the garment industry and union organizing activities, including leafleting for the CIO, in 1935 and continued working until her retirement in 1963. In 1948, she switched from her mixed-gender Local of the ACWA to the Women's Local (275). She particularly enjoyed the companionship of the women and the educational programs. Before retirement in 1963, she married the man who had been her foreman many years earlier and worked with him on establishing a Retirees Center. The interviews with Spitzer were conducted as part of a Senior Honors project by Kris Feichtinger, in collaboration with the Feminist History Research Project. INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is one of eight interviews with Lottie Kaplan Spitzer conducted over the course of four months as part of a Senior Honors project in collaboration with the Feminist History Research Project. Spitzer was very cooperative, but also a bit guarded, since she thought the interviewer was affiliated with the union (ACWA). The interviews were conducted at the ACWA Retirees Center, which probably helped Spitzer to remember and focus on her union experiences. On the other hand, it might have reinforced only positive sentiments about the union, particularly since at the time of the interview visits there constituted Spitzer's main social excursion. There is a great deal of overlap and repetitiousness between the interviews, partially because of Spitzer's tendency to go off into different directions in response to the interviewer's question. Clearly, certain events and people represent more salient memories and these are the ones she tends to repeat. Despite some of the repetitiousness, however, the interviews provide a nice picture of the kind of grass roots union organizing that women like her carried out, especially in the 1910s. TOPICS - blacklisting by Manufacturer's Association; organizing non-union shop during strike; 1918 strike; increase in ACWA membership in Chicago; ACWA organizing in New York; job at Hart, Schaffner & Marx; working conditions; operations at Hart, Schaffner & Marx; wages; friends and social life; classism; first husband's background; anti-Semitism in Russia; husband's work history in New York and Chicago; husband's conscientious objector status, WWI;husband's injuries in military; living arrangements; pregnancy and childbirth; medical care; operating position at Sears & Roebuck; working conditions; wages; job responsibilities; political education in Russia; SP; ACWA political education and campaigning; anarchism; factional struggles in ACWA ;SP activities; political education and activism; organizing CIO; pastimes; Sarah Rozner; Clara Leon; suffrage march, 1914-15; Hull House; domestic life; family fur business;children; returning to work, 1936; Mandel Brothers Department Store; wages; Boston Department Store; bundle system and inequitable distribution of work at Hart, Schaffner & Marx; working conditions; work environment; friends; job at Bonds Clothing Store; and wage discrimination;
- File: lhgwlspitzer8.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-6:02)... Spitzer's name was listed with the Manufacturer's Association after the 1915 strike. Every time she applied for a job, the shop owner would contact the Manufacturer's Association and determine if her name was on their list. When she returned to the shop the following day, she was told that she was blacklisted. She was finally hired at a shop when she told them she was no longer on strike. The majority of workers in this shop were out on strike and she went to work there to determine how many people were still in the shop. There were only about a dozen workers in the shop and they were not doing any work. Once she determined the state of things, she left because she refused to work with scabs. After this incident, she was blacklisted for good. (6:02-7:28)... After being blacklisted, Spitzer went to the ACWA and asked them to find her a job. They sent her and her two friends to Hart, Schaffner & Marx, which was a union shop. She went to Shop 5 located on 21st and Halsted. [Editor's note: previously she stated that the shop was on 19th Street and Halstead.]. (7:28-10:18)... Spitzer did not have any regrets about getting involved in the labor movement after she was blacklisted and was happy to get a job at Hart, Schaffner & Marx, the only shop in the garment district that was at least partly organized by 1915. When workers went on strike in 1917-18, Hart, Schaffner & Marx was completely organized along with several other garment shops in the district. By that time, the ACWA membership in Chicago increased to 35,000-50,000. After this strike, organizers went to New York to organize the clothing industry there. Spitzer did not participate in the strike because she was already married and expecting a baby. She stopped working at Hart, Schaffner & Marx at the end of 1918. (10:18-12:34)... Spitzer describes the operations at Hart, Schaffner & Marx. Workers were paid piecework and she averaged $8-10 a week, which was more than she made at the previous shops. Even though the shop was only partly organized, she enjoyed working there because workers had access to shop stewards and a union chairman. Morris Spitzer (second husband) was the shop steward and he had two assistants. One of his assistants worked upstairs with the operators and another one downstairs with the cutters, pressers, finishers and basters, which is where she worked. (12:34-18:10)... When she was assigned to Shop 5 at Hart, Schaffner & Marx, she didn't know anyone; she was sent to the coat shop and her two friends were sent to the pants shop. She did befriend a few girls at the shop, and they occasionally went out after work and socialized on the weekends. Except for her shop steward and a man who was a medical student., she was not friends with any men in the shop. Although she attended union meetings with men, she did not pursue romantic relationships with them because of her class prejudices. (18:10-18:57)... Spitzer had no difficulty communicating with the Polish, German, and English-speaking workers at Hart, Schaffner & Marx, but it was a little more difficult for her to communicate with the Italians in the shop. Many of the Polish women she worked with were illiterate and she wrote letters for them when they wanted to correspond with their families in Europe. (18:57-20:09)... Spitzer was married September 29, 1917. She continued to work at Hart, Schaffner & Marx after she married. Her husband was drafted into the army shortly after they married even though he was recognized by the government as a conscientious objector. (20:09-27:29)... Spitzer's father-in-law was a fur coat manufacturer in Russia, and even though Jews were prohibited from attending school beyond the fourth grade, her husband and his brother went to Gymnasium because of their father's position. She equates Gymnasium to two years of college in the US. She talks about the treatment of Jews under the czar and the Jewish exodus to America in 1885-86 to escape pogroms. In order to avoid military conscription in the Russian Army, her husband and his cousin immigrated to New York around 1911-12. They were greeted at Ellis Island by a Jewish organization called that provided them with food, shelter, and a job. They worked in a laundry facility at Mt. Sinai Hospital and her husband earned his room and board by doing dishes and taking in sewing projects. He moved to Chicago four years later and got a job at Marshall Field and Company, earning $18/week. (27:29-30:22)... Six months after her husband applied for conscientious objector status, he was drafted into the army. Even though they heard that a man could avoid military conscription if he had children, he was drafted while Spitzer was pregnant. She and her husband did not support WWI because they viewed it as a European conflict and felt that it was not necessary for Americans to fight in the war unless it was invaded. She stayed current with the war and political events by reading the newspaper. End of tape. File: lhgwlspitzer9.mp3 (0:00-1:19)... When her husband went into the army, he developed blisters on his feet as a result of doing running exercises and then later got sick (she claims from resting on the damp grass) and was hospitalized. When she visited him in the hospital, he had a mask on his face and she thought he had lost his nose. However, he was wearing the mask in order to avoid germs. (1:19-5:11)... By the time her husband was drafted into the army, she was no longer working at Hart, Schaffner & Marx. She left the shop in 1918 because she was pregnant and traveling to the shop from her home made her nauseous. A friend got her a job in the tailor shop at Sears & Roebuck, which was within walking distance of her home. (5:11-9:40)... Sears & Roebuck was not a union shop and she described it as the worst shop at which she ever worked. It was located in the basement of the store and there were no windows or ventilation in the shop. The restroom was far distance from the work area and she frequently got lost on her way back to the shop. She averaged $22 for each two week pay period. She was supposed to be paid $25 every two weeks, but was docked every time she came in late. Most the time she was late because she could not find the shop. Although the workers were nice, they refused to join the union because the company offered a profit-sharing program and other types of benefits. (9:40-11:49)... Spitzer operated special machines when she was employed at Sears & Roebuck. She learned very quickly and some of the women were jealous of her because she could work faster and, therefore, make more money. (11:49-17:21)... She worked at Sears & Roebuck until she was six months pregnant. Her son was born three months premature on November 4, 1918 and only survived six hours after being taken to the hospital and placed in an incubator. She delivered him at home with the assistance of a medical doctor because she could not afford to go to the hospital. She was hospitalized for two weeks after giving birth because she was ill with the flu and contracted pneumonia. On the evening that she delivered her son, her husband had been at an anarchist meeting where Emma Goodman and Alexander Berkman were featured speakers. She delivered her second child in the hospital. (17:21-20:52)... Spitzer worked up until she delivered her first child because her husband was in the army and she had no other means of financial support. He was discharged while she was pregnant, but he was unable to make much money. When he came home, he had to walk with a cane for over a year as a result of the injuries he incurred in boot camp. She paid her hospital bills over time. At that time, doctors provided good medical care regardless of their patients' economic status. When she was stabbed during the 1915 strike, the doctor refused to take her money when she returned to pay the bill. (20:52-23:49)... Although she attended SP meetings during WWI, she did not participate in any war protests or demonstrations. The leaders of the ACWA supported the SP and encouraged their members to vote for socialist candidates. They also instructed members how and where to vote because many people were uneducated about the electoral process. She talks about a recent ACWA Retirement Club meeting she attended at which they decided what political candidates to support in an upcoming election. (23:49-27:36)... Spitzer became interested in politics and socialism when she joined the ACWA. The union frequently organized meetings with prominent speakers and politicians in order to educate the membership about the social and political issues of the day. She had been exposed to these ideals growing up in Russia and was aware of the political turmoil there and the persecution of Jews under the czar. The union provided her with more opportunities to get involved in politics. She campaigned for socialists like Eugene V. Debs and Henry Wallace when they ran for president because they supported the working class and the labor movement. (27:36-31:01)... Spitzer discusses the history of anarchism and comments that "those who could not adapt themselves to anarchism became socialists." There were clashes between the anarchist and socialist members in the ACWA. The anarchists often disrupted meetings and refused to support decisions that were made by union leaders. Even though anarchists tried to persuade her to join their group, she did not support their anti-government and anti-leadership ideals. After the anarchists fell out of favor, they were replaced by communists. The internal struggles in the union, therefore, continued between the communist and the socialist factions. End of tape. File: lhgwlspitzer10.mp3 (0:07-0:42)... Spitzer recalls that many prominent people from the SP were arrested and indicted for protesting WWI. She attended some of these trials, but she could not recall any specifics. (0:42-1:32)... When she passed out leaflets in support of socialist candidates, Spitzer told people that the SP was good for the working class and would improve their way of life. Even though she attended SP meetings and helped them during political campaigns, she never actually joined the party. (1:32-5:10)... In 1924, Spitzer began taking music lessons and joined an orchestra conducted by her music teacher a few years later. They practiced in a building that rented its facilities out for meetings and other events. After rehearsal, she attended the lectures in the building that were organized by the SP or the CP. People also handed out leaflets about lectures taking place in other parts of the city. Whenever she attended a lecture, she left her name and address at the door and later received literature asking for her assistance with their various causes. She enjoyed attending Walter Reuther's lectures. (5:10-9:10)... In 1914, the ACWA split with the UGW, which was an AFL union, because the AFL union was not doing enough for the workers. In 1935, she was asked to distribute CIO leaflets because the ACWA was helping the formation of the CIO. For weeks, she was involved in this organizational drive, handing out leaflets at a screw company near her home from 12:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m. every night. When she attended Walter Reuther's lectures, he talked about walking out of the AFL. She credits him with the formation of the CIO. (9:10-12:32)... After the war, she continued to distribute leaflets for the SP during political campaigns. She also handed out literature at work and talked to people about socialist candidates. While working at a shop in 1937, she told her co-workers stories about the books she read in an effort to get them to stop fighting. She went to the library every week and checked out books for the women in the shop. After a while, they stopped fighting because they were too busy discussing the books they had read. Spitzer states that "the girls always looked up to me because I always had something to say." (12:32-18:13)... There were very few women distributing leaflets for the SP during the period Spitzer was involved with the party. When asked if any women held offices in the SP or the ACWA, she mentions spending time with Sarah Rozner and Clara Leon. In general, the women she worked with in the shop were not interested in politics. She felt that she was more developed politically and would inform the women who to vote for based on the decisions made at ACWA meetings. She and her husband frequently attended meetings together and discussed political issues. She met most of her socialist friends during the thirteen-year period she played in an orchestra. (18:13-26:26)... Spitzer learned about woman's suffrage at Hull House, and participated in a suffrage march in 1914 or 1915 organized by Hull House. She marched with Jane Addams, Ellen Gates Starr, Margaret Drier Robbins and Mrs. Lily, whose father owned McCormick Harvesters. Mrs. Lily was among the many high-society women who picketed with Spitzer during the 1915 strike. (26:26-30:00)... After she stopped working in November 1918 to have a child, Spitzer did not return to the work force until the 1930s. Although she missed working, she and her husband wanted to start a family. Her son was born three months premature and died a few hours after birth. She had another son in December 1919. In addition to raising a family, she helped her husband operate a fur and tailoring shop, ordering materials and keeping the books. End of tape. File: lhgwlspitzer11.mp3 (0:12-1:59)... Spitzer quit working in order to start a family. By the time her second son was born in 191, she and her husband were living in the back of their tailor shop. They decided to wait to have anymore children until they moved into an apartment. She gave birth to a daughter in June 1924. (1:59-9:04)... In 1935, when her daughter was eleven years old, Spitzer decided to return to work. She wanted to send her children to college and her husband was not making a lot of money. She had a difficult time finding a job because of the depressed job market. When she contacted her former steward at Hart, Schaffner & Marx. he told her that the company had abandoned the bottom felling operation at which she was skilled. In 1936, she was hired at Mandel Brothers (department store?) sewing labels on coats and shortening sleeves for .25 cents/hour. She left there for a job at Boston's Department Store for .35 cents/hour. She also inquired at the ACWA headquarters because the union wage was .50/hour, but they had nothing for her. When a co-worker at Boston's Department Store saw her at the union hall, he informed the manager and she was fired. She was re-hired on a part-time basis at Sears & Roebuck and also worked at Mandel Brothers, averaging $10-$12/week working both jobs. (9:04-11:23)... After making numerous inquiries of the Labor Manager of the ACWA, who failed to get her a job in a union shop, she met with Sam Levine. She describes him as a kind man, who was also like a "hard-boiled egg." He was pleasant to her until he found out she was there looking for work. When he became angry with her, telling her that she was among thousands looking for a job, she felt unappreciated for the sacrifices she had made for the ACWA. (11:23-20:16)... Spitzer talks about standing up for herself when she was being abused, like the time she slapped her foreman at Scotch Woolen Mills. She details how the bundle system worked and how workers took larger or easier bundles before she could get to them. She rarely complained about this until she got to Hart, Schaffner & Marx and her foreman noticed that she was not producing as much as the other women. When she informed him that the cutters were playing favorites and reserving bundles for the workers they liked, he remedied the situation. These problems arose because workers were paid by piecework and wanted to make as much money as they could. (20:16-22:05)... When she started at Hart, Schaffner & Marx, the women were not too friendly because they viewed new workers as competition. Eventually, she became close friends with a few co-workers. The women had no choice but to accept her after the shop steward told them that she was considered a "steady girl" and not just extra help. (22:05-27:04)... In 1936, she went to work at Bonds, which operated several stores in Chicago. The foreman placed a ceiling on her wages of about $12-$13/week so that she would not be eligible for unemployment or worker's compensation. When she told the store manager that she was quitting because she could not support her family on these wages, he agreed to transfer her to their downtown store. The foreman was upset about her decision to leave the shop and the store manager was disappointed to lose her because she was an "all-around" girl and an excellent worker. She worked at Bonds for the next six and a half years. (Editor's note: in the sixth interview, Spitzer states that she worked at Bonds for twenty-nine years.) (27:04-28:19)... In addition to working at Bonds six days a week, Spitzer she sold jewelry during her lunch break, and held a second job five nights a week. She talks about her daily routine of leaving work on her lunch break and going to a jewelry house just to make .25 cents. End of tape.
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