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Simmons, Etta (audio interview #2 of 4)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the second of four interviews with Etta Simmons, conducted in her living room of her modest one-story home in Manhattan Beach. The interview took place shortly after the death of her husband and although she seemed to be adjusting relatively well to being alone, she welcomed the company and enjoyed the attention the interview provided. Simmons was very candid and talked freely about her past. She was often self-critical and self-reflective, using the interviews as a way to analyze her life. Although the interviews reveal a person who has been the victim of unhappy circumstances, off tape Simmons was a lively woman with a good sense of humor. 3/9/1981
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- 2021-04-23
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- *** File: rrresimmons5.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:01-4:40)... Simmons describes the strike against the garment factory where she worked. The strikers picketed on the corner of San Pedro and Washington Boulevard for better wages and a union shop. [Editor's note: in other words, the shop was unionized after she began working there and the union pay scale she described earlier was instituted only after the strike.] The strike was settled within a few days and the owners agreed to sign a union contract. The workers celebrated their victory at a Mexican cantina located near the shop. They returned to work the next day and began working on a government contract for army overcoats. The company, however, never ended up signing a contract with the union. [Editor's note: this is somewhat confusing since she had noted earlier that they had union guaranteed minimum weekly wage.] (4:40-9:15)... Simmons learned about job opportunities in defense from newspaper advertisements and by word-of-mouth. Although her husband was working at the time, he did not have a steady employer. When she learned that the pay was good in defense plants, she was immediately attracted to the work, and applied for job at Lockheed-Vega in Burbank. She was hired to work in a Vega plant. Initially, she was a little apprehensive about taking on something new. She also heard that she would be meeting a lot of "weirdos" and even though she was not afraid, she was apprehensive about the unknown. (9:15-13:29)... When Simmons applied for a job at Lockheed in the spring of 1942, there were a lot of applicants in the personnel office and the atmosphere was very busy. She believes she was interviewed by a man who inquired about her mechanical skills. She told him that she had experience operating a sewing machine, and she saw him write something down in her file. She knew early on that she would not be assigned to a welding job or anything that required her to operate heavy machinery. If she had she been offered anything like that, she would have turned it down because she did not want to work with anything dangerous. After the interview, she was told that she would be hired as an assembler. (13:29-18:55)... When she was hired at Lockheed, Simmons was told that her starting pay would be .65 an hour and that she would be eligible for periodic reviews and pay raises. She was told that the the plant was an open shop, but she decided to join the union anyhow. She regretted this, however, becoming discouraged with union policies when a supervisor told her that if she filed a grievance over pay inequities in the shop it would be used against her later. (18:55-20:55)... After she applied for the job, she went to the plant for a brief orientation, and was assigned to a building and a department. She believes that she had to take a physical examination on this occasion as well. She initially requested assignment to the day shift, but later switched to the graveyard shift. (20:55-24:25)... Simmons prepared for her new job by purchasing the proper work attire and scheduling a carpool partner through Lockheed. She maintained the same child care arrangements that she had prior to going to work in the plant. (24:25-27:09)... Simmons' husband did not disapprove of her decision to get the job at Lockheed. Describing her first day on the job, she notes that the most memorable thing was working with a woman whose husband was killed at Pearl Harbor. A leadman and two co-workers trained Simmons on how to operate a drill. [Editor's note: in this segment, she states that her first assignment was on the wing section of B-17s; however, in the next interview she clarifies that this was her second assignment and her first was riveting the bomb doors of B-24s.] (27:09-31:23)... Simmons describes her first impressions of the plant. Although she had worked in a factory setting before, she had never been in a plant as large as Lockheed. She talks about her job as an assembler on the wing section of B-17s. The department in which she worked was extremely large, but there were only three or four people in her immediate area. She received some training from her leadman, but was mainly trained by two co-workers, one woman and one man. She was a little nervous about her ability to learn the skills because she knew that she was on a probation period and if she did not do well she would be terminated. End of tape. *** File: rrresimmons6.mp3 (0:02-1:12)... Although security guards glanced at workers' lunch pails and purses as they entered the plant, they conducted a more detailed inspection when the workers left. When she first started working in the plant, she was concerned about getting lost because of the size of the building. She learned right away where the cafeteria and the restrooms were. (1:12-5:53)... Simmons never received any negative feedback from her male co-workers during her years at Lockheed. Her position as an assembler was less intimidating to men because it was lower on the totem pole. There were a large number of women in the plant and she believes that the ratio of women to men in her department was three to one. In general, "the men enjoyed having women there." All of the supervisory positions in the plant were held by men. She got along well with her leadman and they socialized during their work breaks. She felt as if her co-workers were members of her peer group because they were similar in age and had things in common with her. There may have been some women in the plant who were not as friendly to her because she was Jewish. She did not meet any Jews the entire time she was with the company. (5:53-6:21)... Simmons recalls that there were a few Blacks and Mexicans employed in her department during the war years. (6:21-7:07)... She was nervous on her first day of work and wanted to do her best. Within a short time, however, she felt comfortable with her skills and her responsibilities in the plant. (7:07-9:30)... During her breaks, Simmons used the restroom and/or talked to her co-workers. At lunch time, she ate in the cafeteria or outside. Occasionally, the company hired entertainers to perform for employees during their lunch break. She also recalls listening to war rallies and propaganda speeches over the loud speakers while she ate lunch. (9:30-10:17)... At the end of her first day of work, Simmons felt tired and a little sore. Her legs and feet hurt from standing all day and her arms ached from raising her arms and operating her hand tools. Over time, however, she got used to her working conditions and did not feel as fatigued as she did after her first day. (10:17-15:04)... Simmons clarifies the order of her job assignments at Lockheed. Although she stated in the previous interview that she started out working in the wing section of B-17s, she actually started working on the bomb doors of B-24s. She moved into the wing section when she switched to the graveyard shift a few months later. She decided to switch shifts because her child care arrangements changed and she needed to be home with her son during the day. She talks about her life during this period and her marital problems, including a two-week separation from her husband. (15:04-25:56)... Simmons finally decided to leave her husband in 1943 and divorced him in 1944. She moved to West Los Angeles to live with his cousin who had told Simmons previously that she was welcome in their home whenever she decided to leave him. Until she began to work at Lockheed, she had allowed her husband to handle their finances, but then realized that she couldn't depend on him to pay the bills. During their two-week separation, her husband got a job at Lockheed so that he could be closer to her in an attempt to reconcile. She did end up moving back in with him. He left or was fired from Lockheed a short time later and he did not change his behavior after they reconciled. (25:56-28:31)... When Simmons began working on the wing section, she occasionally had to crawl inside the wing to buck rivets. She also learned how to repair and patch holes that were drilled too large for the rivets. Most of her job responsibilities, however, remained the same as the work she completed while assembling the bomb doors of B-24s. End of tape. *** File: rrresimmons7.mp3 (0:00-0:47)... Simmons graveyard shift began between 11:30 p.m. and 12:00 a.m. She was paid a few cents more for working on this shift, and worked a half hour less than people on the day and swing shifts. (0:47-1:35)... The pace of production in her department was neither too slow nor too fast. The only problems she ever had while in production was the physical strain on her body from having to stand all day. (1:35-3:31)... There were fewer people on the graveyard shift than the day shift; between four and six people in her department. She describes her section, indicating that she occasionally had to walk up different levels to reach certain parts of the wing. Looking back, more men worked on the swing and graveyard shifts but the ratio of women to men remained the same on these shifts as it was during the day shift. (3:31-11:15)... Most of the friends Simmons made at work were women. Their conversations revolved around their jobs and their personal lives. Occasionally, they gossiped about romances between co-workers. She recalls the time her co-workers told her about two lesbians in the plant. She was grateful for the opportunity to work at Lockheed because she got to meet all types of people. Initially, she was a little narrow-minded, but "meeting all kinds of people from different backgrounds makes you... expand your thinking." She talks about the time a co-worker made a disparaging remark about Jewish people, at which time Simmons responded, "I'm a Jew!" (11:15-14:04)... Simmons discusses flirting and romantic relationships among the work force at Lockheed. The men enjoyed teasing women, and she did not know anyone who complained about men's advances. Even though she was married, she was periodically asked out on dates. She mentions the time she turned down a date with a man because he was Mexican, stating that she was very prejudiced during that period in her life. [Editor's note: it turns out later that this encounter occurred in the 1950s when she was working in a Los Angeles garment factory.] (14:04-14:50)... Simmons talks about the backgrounds of her co-workers, indicating that some of her close friends were from the Midwest. She cannot recall if these people were treated any differently than everyone else who worked in the plant. (14:50-17:32)... Simmons discusses the health and safety measures enforced at Lockheed. Workers were provided with literature to remind them of the safety regulations in the plant, and women were constantly being told about the dangers of working with hand tools and machinery without wearing a hair net. Supervisors liked to tell a story about a woman who was scalped when her hair got caught in her drill. Simmons never knew if this story was true or just a ploy to get women to understand the importance of hair net protection. Simmons and her female co-workers were taught how to hold and operate a drill properly in an effort to minimize workplace injuries. (17:32-18:36)... Simmons could not recall what types of company services existed at the plant because she never took advantage of these services. She recalls, however, that there were first aid stations in the plant. (18:36-19:55)... After she divorced her husband in 1944, Simmons quit Lockheed and returned to Massachusetts to be near her mother. She went back to California a short time later and returned to defense work. (19:55-22:41)... While she was separated from her husband, Simmons began dating on an infrequent basis. At this time, she was living with her husband's cousin (who she refers to as her cousin) and they enjoyed entertaining guests at home. It was in this social setting that she met eligible, young men. She began a serious relationship with a merchant marine who had also gone through a divorce. He asked Simmons to move in with him, and although she was tempted to do so, she was "prudish" and feared the social backlash that would result from her actions. (22:41-24:11)... Simmons continues to discuss her social life, indicating that she spent most of her spare time with family members. (24:11-28:06)... While she was living with her cousins, Simmons helped with household chores and paid them for room and board. They lived in a two-bedroom home. Simmons slept on the couch and her son slept with his younger cousins in one of the bedrooms. She contemplated leaving on many occasions because her son and his cousins did not get along. She enrolled him in a local boarding school, but missed him and felt guilty and took him out of the school one month later. End of tape. *** File: rrresimmons8.mp3 (0:04-0:35)... Although rationing was a wartime inconvenience, Simmons did not find it difficult to shop during the war. After she separated from her husband, she gave all of her rationing coupons to her cousin who did all of the shopping for the family. (0:35-2:27)... During the war, Simmons was able to save very little money as most of her wages went towards living expenses. She digresses regarding her decision to return to Boston while she was going through a divorce. She was confident that she would be able to find a job in a defense plant in Massachusetts. (2:27-6:52)... A few days after she arrived in Boston, she got a job at a garment factory that was handling a government contract. She quit two days later when the needle of the machine she was operating pierced one of her fingers. She then went to work at another garment factory making dresses. During the short time she worked there, the workers signed a union contract and were given thirty days to join the union. Had she not returned to California before that thirty-day period expired, she would not have joined the union. She had developed a negative attitude towards unions in the garment industry. (6:52-11:11)... Simmons had not planned on staying in Boston for a long time. After approximately a month, she saved enough money for bus fare and returned to California in July 1944. She moved back in with her cousins and got a job at a small aircraft plant in Los Angeles. At this plant, she worked as a riveter on the nose cone of an airplane. She injured her nose when she ran into the sharp end of the nose cone. She quit this job a short time later although she could not recall why. (11:11-15:39)... After she left the aircraft plant in Los Angeles, she got a job doing assembly and riveting work at Avion Corporation, an aircraft plant located in East Los Angeles near the meatpacking district. She recalls getting extremely embarrassed when a male co-worker teased women about the odor of the meat plants resembling a woman's scent. She quit Avion a short time later and went to work at Western Holly, a stove company that was handling a government contract during the war. Her cousins left the Los Angeles area and Simmons moved into a trailer park in Culver City. Her son stayed home alone in the evenings while she worked the graveyard shift at Western Holly. Her pay at Avion and Western Holly was comparable to her wages at Lockheed. (15:39-19:15)... Simmons worked at Western Holly until the war ended. Although she wanted to keep her job, she expected that she would be laid off. A few days after she was laid off from Western Holly, she packed up her son and their belongings and drove to Castaic, California. She moved in with her cousins once again and got a job as a waitress. (19:15-23:47)... Besides working in defense, Simmons was not profoundly affected by the war. She feels guilty about her indifference during the war period, indicating that she now likes to watch movies and documentaries about the war because "it seems like I'm trying to feel the way maybe I should have felt during WWII." Even though she read and heard about war events in Europe, she did not learn about the Holocaust until much later in the war. Since the war ended, however, she met some people who were imprisoned and survived Nazi concentration camps. During the war years, she was not conscious of anti-Semitism because she did not associate with the Jewish community. Most, if not all, of her friends were gentiles and she did not work with any Jews during the war years. End of tape.
- SUBJECT BIO - Even though she worked at Lockheed for less than two years, the experience had a profound impact on her. The third of six children, Simmons was born in Boston and raised in various locations in Massachusetts. Immediately after graduating from high school, she began working and from 1936 until her marriage in 1938 worked in a WPA sewing job. She became a full-time homemaker for the next three years, first in Massachusetts and then in Los Angeles, where she moved with her husband infant son, in 1940. In 1941, she went to work as an operator in the garment industry, and a year later began working at Lockheed. Her brief employment at Lockheed seemed to give her the impetus to finally divorce her "ne'er do well" husband. After that, starting in 1944, with a few exceptions, she mainly worked as a sewing machine operator in various factories and at home for the next thirty six years. The interviews with Simmons were conducted shortly after the death of her second, who she had married in 1952. TOPICS - garment factory work; garment workers strike; advertisements for defense jobs; job expectations for defense work; Lockheed hiring process; wages and pay raises; seniority and wage inequities; grievance efforts aplant security; gender relations; men's attitude towards women in the plant; labor force demographics; minorities; working conditions; work breaks; entertainment during lunch hour; work assignments at Lockheed; whhours; production pace; graveyard shift; relationship with co-workers; lesbians; gender relations; workplace romances; personal prejudices; labor force demographics; safety measures; dating; social life and activitrationing; divorce; move back East; work in garment factories in Boston; attitude towards unions in garment industry; workplace injuries; return to California; work in defense plants, including Avion and Western Ho
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