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Polliard, Mary (audio interview #2 of 3)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the second of three interviews conducted with Mary Polliard in her hilltop home in Malibu. She remained warm, friendly and engaged throughout the interview, despite the discomfort caused by her long-term back problems. 8/1/1981
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- 2021-07-27
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- SUBJECT BIO - Mary Polliard went to work at Northrop Aviation in 1943, shortly after she separated from her husband. Born in Honey Grove, Texas, the last of three children, Polliard did farm work and handy work after completed the tenth grade. Following her marriage in 1936, she became a full-time homemaker for the next seven years. She moved to California with her husband in 1939, finally settling in Los Angeles in 1943. When Polliard went to the US Employment Office to apply for a defense job, she was dissuaded from going to work from Douglas. She was given the impression that the women who worked there were "rough" and was referred to Northrop Aviation instead. After a week of riveting training, unable to tolerate the noise, she transferred to the job shop and became one of the first women at Northrop to operate a milling machine. Polliard was not laid off at war's end and continued in production until 1946, after which she was forced to take a clerical job. She married a supervisor three years later and continued to work until 1952, becoming one of the "Northrop family." Although Polliard took tailoring classes in adult education and attended beauty school for two years after she left Northrop, she remained a full-time homemaker after the birth of her son in 1955. She suffered from health problems as a result of an accident when he was small. TOPICS - motivations for war work; patriotism; government employment office; reputation of Douglas workers; J;K; Northrop and his attitude towards women workers; Northrop hiring process; machinist training at Northrop schooattitude towards the union; working conditions at Northrop; restroom matrons; supervisory structure in jig department; men's attitude towards women in the plant; worker relationships; social activities; safety meashome front atmosphere; Japanese American internment; rationing; views on the war; minorities at Northrop; pre-war work history; husband's work history; postwar layoffs and transfer to Plant 3; Flying Wing controver
- *** File: rrrmpolliard4.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-1:28)... Note: The tape recording was turned off at one point in this segment, as per Polliard's request. When Polliard's husband received a draft notice after WWII began, they moved back to Los Angeles. She was happy to leave San Francisco because she did not know anyone and did not like the fog. When they arrived in Los Angeles, she began looking for work and decided to become a riveter at Douglas. She went to a government employment office in downtown Los Angeles in search of a defense job. The employment representative recommended that she apply at Northrop instead of "tough Douglas" because he thought she was a nice, young lady. Even though she had never heard of Northrop, she went to the plant and applied for a job. (1:28-2:57)... Polliard was hired at Northrop because, like her father, the man who interviewed her was a Mason. Otherwise, because of her medical problems, she would not have been hired. She was sent to riveting school for a week, which she disliked because of the noise. When she decided that she was going to quit the class, the teacher recommended that she attend machine shop school where she learned how to operate a milling machine. She attended school for eight hours a day on the evening shift. After two months of training, she was put to work in the plant. (2:57-5:06)... The man at the employment office in downtown Los Angeles suggested that she go to work at Northrop because women were protected there. She comments that she must have come across as the scared, little country girl that she was. He did not think that Douglas was an appropriate place for her because it had a reputation of being a tough environment for women. J.K. Northrop, on the other hand, insisted that women be treated like ladies at his plant, and if a man insulted a woman he was summarily fired. However, he did not discourage promiscuity among women as long as it was invited. She applied for a position at Northrop on February 15, 1943. (5:06-8:56)... Polliard applied for a job at Northrop at an office in Hawthorne. The machine shop school was located at Inglewood High School. The first two training shifts were designated for Northrop employees and the graveyard shift for Douglas employees. Polliard notes: "that was when I learned what they meant by tough ladies." She describes the training program, indicating that it was far superior than the training that machinists receive now. Her starting wage was .55/hour, which was increased to .65 cents during the two-month training course. When she and another woman were assigned to the jig shop, their wages increased to .91/hour, in contrast, she claims to the men in the shop, who earned only .75 cents/hour. Her responsibilities included operating the only mill in the department and manufacturing tools and equipment for the plant. (8:56-10:21)... Polliard describes the application process at Northrop, indicating that because of the physical limitations stipulated for women, they were required to take a physical examination. She also was required to take a loyalty oath because the company was building secret airplanes during the war. She attended riveting school for only one week because she could not handle the noise. (10:21-13:54)... When Polliard moved back to Los Angeles, she rented an apartment on 42nd and Van Buren, approximately nine miles from the Northrop training school. In the meantime, her husband was sent to an Army base in Watsonville. When she told him that she was going to look for a job, he laughed. Polliard talks about her husband's earlier discharge from the Navy and the fact that his main motivation for enlisting in the Army during the war was to clear his military record. He assumed that the reason they separated was because he lied to her about his Navy discharge. However, the real reason she left him was because of her health problems. (13:54-15:50)... Polliard's work attire consisted of pants, a blouse, flat-heeled, safety shoes, and a cap to protect her hair from getting caught in the machinery. She liked wearing pants because they were comfortable and she did not have to worry about stockings or style. She was known as the "girl with bell bottom pants" because she made her own pants and that was the style she liked. She spent the weekends washing and ironing her work clothes. She comments on the the protective laws for women at the time, noting that now they have lost that and go in as an equal. (15:50-19:21)... During her interview at Northrop, Polliard was asked why she preferred production work over a clerical job. Besides not being qualified for clerical work, she was driven by patriotism and didn't feel that office work, even in a defense plant, was contributing to the war effort. She knew that the pay was good in defense work and wanted to live comfortably and support herself. Even though she received a $50 military allotment, she gave it to her husband to cover the travel expenses he incurred during his visits. This leads her to comment on their marital problems and eventual separation and divorce. (19:21-20:21)... Because she did not have a child until 1955, Polliard did not have to deal with child care during the war years. Most of the mothers who worked in defense had their own mothers take care of their children. Polliard was not aware of any nursery schools or childcare centers opened during the war because none of the women she worked with had children. She believes that childcare became an issue after the war. (20:21-23:42)... When Polliard was hired at Northrop, she began training on the swing shift from 3:00 p.m. to midnight. The twenty to twenty-five people in the class were all White women ranging in age from eighteen to thirty-five. The majority of women who went to work at Northrop, like Polliard, were motivated partly by patriotism and partly by the good money they could earn. She recalls going back home to Honey Grove, Texas in 1946 and learning that she earned more than the bank president. (23:42-25:13)... Polliard's paycheck went towards living expenses and medical bills. She purchased a Pontiac with one of her first paychecks and financed it for eighteen months. Prior to getting a car, she rode the street car to work and then began riding with co-workers in a carpool. With all of these expenses, she had very little money left over to put into savings. (25:13-26:10)... Polliard had no idea where she would be placed in the plant once she finished training school. She was happy when she learned that she was going into the jig department, but still had no idea what to expect. She went into the jig department with her friend Florence but the other girls with whom she trained were sent to the machine shop in production, which she thought was a boring job compared to her own. (26:10-30:03)... When Polliard and Florence entered the jig department, the first statement out of their foreman's mouth was "women are not worth a god damn except in bed and don't forget it. You're not going to get anywhere in this department!" He stood by his statement and refused to promote any women in the department to an "A" classification even when they were qualified for advancement. Her entire time in the jig department she worked as a "B" classified milling machine operator. Even though she received five-cent raises on a regular basis, she bombarded her foreman with requests for pay raises and a promotion on a monthly basis. Her pay topped out at $1.11 per hour. She describes the two different milling machines she operated, indicating that she refused to work on a larger machine until she was advanced to an "A" classified machinist, which never happened. (30:03-30:18)... When asked if there was a union at Northrop, Polliard responds "No, thank God [because] unions are dehumanizing." End of tape. *** File: rrrmpolliard5.mp3 (0:00-5:35)... Polliard discusses her attitude towards the union and compares the working conditions at Northrop and the unionized plants of North American and Douglas. She comments that women were treated like ladies at Northrop. The women's restrooms were equipped with a living room and a refrigerator, and they received two, twenty-minute rest periods during the day. The company also hired elderly women as restroom matrons who helped the women with their problems and to protect them. After the war, ninety percent of the labor force voted against a union shop. Unionists attempted to block her vote during the election because she did not support the union. In her estimation, a unionist at Northrop worked a total of two hours and spent the rest of the time organizing for the union and slacking off. (5:35-7:20)... Polliard describes the jig department, where there were only seven women machine operators. Their first leadman was not a nice person and when the women had enough of him, they physically removed him from the shop floor, escorted him to the foreman's office, and demanded that he be terminated. Their new leadman was much more pleasant. The men in the jig department never resented the women and were very cordial and helpful. (7:20-10:47)... Polliard was initially very frightened working with machinery. Living alone in a big city was daunting, so she was very insecure when she first began working at Northrop. She refused give up, however, but it was almost six months before she stopped going home every night in tears. The friendly and familial work environment helped her adjust to the situation. After a while, she began socializing with her co-workers outside of work. The men in her department were very protective of the women, and she cites two incidents of their interceding when men from other departments behaved inappropriately towards the women in their department. (10:47-11:56)... Polliard explains that in October 1945, the government stipulated that all women working the evening shift be taken off the machines for their own protection. Although there were very few injuries in her department, she believes that the company and the government wanted to avoid lawsuits as a result of workplace injuries. She describes the injury that a co-worker incurred while operating a machine. (11:56-15:25)... By the time Polliard went to work in the jig department in 1943, she was one of only seven women in the tooling section. There were a total of 125 employees in the jig department, the majority of whom were men. She believes that this gender ratio was similar throughout the rest of the plant during the war. Following the war, more women were hired at Northrop because they had to work after losing their husbands in the war or on account of divorce. (15:25-17:01)... The jig department in which Polliard worked was housed in an annex that was disconnected from the rest of the plant. It was a self-sufficient department that included a jig section, a machine shop, an inspection area, and a welding section. (17:01-18:33)... Polliard was required to purchase some precision tools before she began working in the plant. There was a tool shop in the plant where employees could order tools, and ultimately she spent $500 to $600 dollars for her tools. Although her department was equipped with a tool crib where employees checked out certain tools, precision tools were not provided by the company. (18:33-23:49)... During training, Polliard was informed about the safety measures in the plant. She describes the milling machine she worked on and the areas that were potentially dangerous, recalling an incident when a co-worker warned her to move out of the way to avoid an injury. Because of the nature of the cutting mechanism on the milling machine, and the fact that these machines were operated by women, the company was extremely diligent about safety. Her department was regularly toured by a safety engineer. She had two injuries, for which she received treatment in the plant dispensary. At one point during the war, she was taken off her machine for two weeks when the company doctor determined she had low blood pressure. She was treated in the plant dispensary for this condition. (23:49-24:33)... Polliard was close to her women co-workers. She describes the social activities they participated in during the war years, noting that there were always a sufficient number of servicemen wherever they went. (24:33-28:10)... Although Polliard did not notice too many workplace romances during the war years, she comments on two women who were somewhat promiscuous with their male co-workers. When the other women discovered how these women behaved, they ostracized them from their social group. However, Polliard and her friends were by no means "prudes," and mentions numerous times when she had a little too much to drink during their social outings. (28:10-29:00)... The war was omnipresent because many of her co-workers had loved ones in the service. People were extremely patriotic during the war and a co-worker's loss was a traumatic event and affected the entire department. End of tape. *** File: rrrmpolliard6.mp3 (0:00-1:45)... She was anxious about being bombed during the war period, particularly after the Japanese launched a torpedo off the coast of Santa Barbara. Whenever she visited her brother at Port Hueneme she passed by the torpedo site and that "was too close for comfort." She talks about a Japanese open-air market near Northrop where she and many of her co-workers shopped until, she claims, it was discovered that the proprietors were hiding weapons there and sympathizing with the Japanese government. [Note: People of Japanese ancestry were evacuated and imprisoned in camps during the war.] (1:45-4:53)... Rationing was a wartime inconvenience, but did not pose any problems for her as long as it was fair. She had no difficulty obtaining gas coupons, and drove twenty thousand miles a year during the war. She recalls the day Pearl Harbor was attacked, which made her feel like "the whole world had come to an end." She had a difficult time understanding the political and financial roots of war. (4:53-6:42)... Polliard thought that the Japanese internment was a "grossly unfair" thing to do to Japanese-American citizens regardless of their political alliances. Although it probably was a good idea to move the Japanese away from coastal areas, it was unnecessary to confiscate their property. She believes that the Japanese were treated well and fed properly while they were interned. (6:42-8:56)... During the war, the only minority workers in the jig department were "Hispanics," Indians and a few different nationalities. Blacks were not hired during the war because, she claims, they were not qualified to do the work. However, they were hired in the postwar period regardless of their skill level. She never observed any racial problems in the plant during or after the war. All of the minorities were accepted as family in the department. (8:56-12:56)... During the war years, Polliard was classified as a "B" machinist. When she first started at Northrop, she never considered whether or not her job would continue after the war. Initially, she went to work before the war because she was bored. Her husband worked long hours as a gas station attendant, making only $20/week. After the war broke out, they moved to San Francisco and he went to work for Richmond Shipyards as a chipper and earned more than $300/week (sic). She found it very fulfilling to begin earning her own money. Even though she originally wanted to pursue a design career in California, she knew she was unqualified for that field. (12:56-16:52)... As the war progressed, Polliard hoped that she would keep her job after the war. The day after VJ-Day, she was transferred to the Crenshaw plant while most of her co-workers were laid off. When the war ended, the government canceled the contract for the Flying Wing and demanded that Northrop destroy the wings that had been produced. She believes that the union and politicians collaborated to take contracts away from Northrop after the war. Jack Northrop exposed the Flying Wing controversy six months before he died. (16:52-18:36)... Polliard believes that after VE-Day her co-workers were more concerned about their loved ones fighting in the Pacific than about losing their jobs. Many people thought that the Japanese practiced uncivilized war tactics and that the use of the atomic bomb was an expedient solution to ending the war with Japan. (18:36-21:51)... Polliard recalls that a few co-workers said that they wished the war wouldn't end because they were making so much money. One woman said something to that effect within earshot of a woman who had lost her son in the war. Polliard, was very patriotic and thought the "servicemen were gods." It bothered her a great deal when she met men who went to work in defense just to escape the draft. She assumed that she would lose her job following the war and was completely surprised when she was transferred to Plant 3 (Crenshaw) the day after VJ-Day. (21:51-24:11)... When Polliard and her friend Florence were transferred to Plant 3 and assigned to the production machine shop, the foreman who was antagonistic towards women, made them sit around on their first shift with nothing to do. When the timekeeper assigned them to idle time, the foreman put them to work doing menial tasks like sweeping the floor and counting nuts and bolts in an attempt to get them to quit. Florence lasted two weeks before she persuaded the foreman to lay her off. Polliard, however, needed the money and accepted whatever tasks he assigned. When he realized that she was there to stay, he put her in charge of running parts. She worked in this capacity until October 1946 when the company took women on the night shift off the machines. (24:11-27:17)... Polliard anticipated that she was going to be laid off when women were taken off the machines. The general foreman offered her a position as a department clerk at the same wage she was earning in production. She was reluctant to accept the offer because she had no clerical experience, but he and the other foremen in the department office convinced her to take the position. She later found out that they were looking out for her because, like her father, they were Masons. During the week she was being trained, the general foreman told her that she would have to leave her hot-tempered attitude at the door. She developed this persona as a result of having to stand up for herself so that her male co-workers would accept her on an equal level. She describes her responsibilities as a department clerk. End of tape.
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