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Baker, Marie (audio interview #2 of 3)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - Between this second interview and the first one, Baker suffered severe problems with her pancreas, leading to a delay in the scheduling. However, despite her restrictive diet and other problems resulting from her illness, she was eager to continue with the interviews. As before, the interview was conducted in her home in Redondo Beach. 7/22/1980
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- 2021-07-09
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- SUBJECT BIO - Marie Baker went to work at North American Aviation shortly after the war began. Realizing that her marriage was unworkable, she left her husband and the isolation of the desert community where they had been living, moved to Los Angeles and applied for a job at North American. Born in San Francisco in 1912, the third of eight children, Baker faced economic hardship growing up. An incurable romantic, she fell in love with her first husband when she was in her early teens and married him when she was nineteen. They settled in the desert area of the Antelope Valley, about sixty miles outside of Los Angeles, where she lived until she left him. Baker married her second husband shortly before war's end, and quit her job at North American. She joined him in San Bernardino, where he was teaching. She started a second family after they returned to Los Angeles, and she remained at home until the early 1950s, when she returned to North American. Feeling that her job was interfering with family life, she quit, and eventually pursued a longtime ambition to become a beautician, a trade she was still practicing at the time of the interview. Baker was interviewed in her home in Redondo Beach on three separate occasions by Jan Fischer. She was worried about remembering things accurately and initially was nervous speaking on tape. This uneasiness passed, however, and she enjoyed spending time after each interview chatting and looking through old photographs and news clippings. Although she became quite ill between the second and third interviews, she remained in good spirits and was eager to continue with the interviews. TOPICS - move to Los Angeles; patriotism; job advertisements for North American; application and hiring process; on-the-job training; work clothing; plant environment and working conditions; work force demographics; translead position; gender relations; race relations; union; training for new assignments; work force demographics; security at the plant; safety precautions and first aid; and housing and living arrangements;housing and living arrangements; company services; transportation; hours and wages; life during the war; rationing; living expenses; social activities and dating; parents; family history; family life; second husban
- *** File: rrrmbaker4.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-2:37)... Baker moved in with a friend in Los Angeles on April 12, 1942 because she needed a job: "I was going to be very independent. I wasn't going to ask for any alimony. I was just going to take care of myself." Baker's sister was already living in Mojave and agreed to move into Baker's home and take care of her daughter until Baker got settled in Los Angeles. Baker applied for a job at North American, citing patriotism, and was hired on April 19, 1942. (2:37-6:08)... While still living in Mojave, she read about job opportunities at North American. She recalls that companies were looking for women to fill positions and everyone was going to work because they were so patriotic. Her husband drove her to a facility located in downtown Los Angeles where she applied and later received training. Her starting wage was .65 cents per hour. Baker was "pleased to go to work because I knew that I was going to support myself and be real independent." (6:08-7:45)... When Baker applied for work at North American she was required to undergo a physical examination and fill out a medical history form. Although her mechanical aptitude was not tested, she knew that she would be placed in production rather than in a clerical position. (7:45-8:17)... Women of all ages were in the office at the time Baker applied for a job at North American. There also were several Black women seeking positions with the company. Baker worked with eight Black women while in production and later supervised them when she became a lead person. (8:17-10:31)... Other than informing her that she would be working "on the line," Baker was not told any specifics about the type of work she would be doing. She was told that her starting wage would be .60 cents per hour and that she would receive an automatic .05 cent raise in three months. She also was informed that she would be expected to work about ten hours a day. She reported to the plant about two days after she was hired. At that time, she was assigned to a department and shown "what to do." She did not receive any formal job training. Her first job involved buffing the ends of tubing, noting that the job was so easy that "a moron could have done it." (10:31-12:09)... Baker did not have to prepare for her job at North American. She had to wear pants to work, which she thought were very comfortable. She also had to wear a hair net or hat on her head to cover her hair. She did not have to purchase any tools before starting her job because employees checked tools out of the plant's tool cribs. The first department she worked in was tube bending and she did not need to use any tools. When she moved into a new department three weeks later she had to borrow tools from the tool crib. (12:09-13:54)... Baker worked the day shift which started at 7:00 a.m. She left home about forty minutes before her shift began, riding the streetcar about half way to work and then a bus. She also participated in a carpool and remembers waiting outside in the dark for her ride to arrive. (13:54-17:51)... She was very nervous and a little scared on her first day of work because she thought that factory women were tough. However, she soon found out that this image was incorrect. When she first arrived at the plant, a foreman demonstrated the work she was expected to perform. She caught on quickly. The work was monotonous, but she notes that "you were so busy being so patriotic and doing something for your country that you were just glad to be doing anything to help the war effort." She was at a starting point and hoped that she would eventually move into another area of production. (17:51-21:19)... Baker describes the plant and the department in which she worked. The plant was very noisy from the "rivet guns going like crazy." The atmosphere was very active and production was moving at a fast pace when she first entered the plant. Work stations were illuminated by fluorescent lights. She does not recall any problems with ventilation or temperature. The only department closed off to the rest of the plant was the paint department because the paint fumes were strong. (21:19-23:05)... Baker recalls that there were a lot of women in the plant when she first started at North American in 1942. New women came into the plant every day. The tubing department was a natural starting point for women because the work was easy. Baker believes that men enjoyed women being in the plant and she does not recall experiencing any negative reactions from men. The people Baker worked with were ordinary just like her. She did not get too close to her co-workers in the tubing department because she was transferred to a new department just three weeks after starting at North American. (23:05-28:44)... After three weeks in the tubing department, she was sent to work on the tail section of the Mitchell bomber. Her job entailed placing de-icer boots on the horizontal and vertical stabilizers. She describes her work in detail; she believes that women were preferred in this position because they did a better job than men. Baker was only one of two women in the department for awhile. Eventually, eighteen women transferred into the department, eight of whom were Black. Baker was promoted to lead in August 1942, and she supervised all eighteen women. Women did not do riveting work in that department. Two women worked as boot punchers, but they were fired when they got into a fight. As lead, Baker was required to testify at a union hearing on this matter. After that incident, women stopped doing punching work. End of tape. *** File: rrrmbaker5.mp3 (0:00-1:30)... Baker and the other woman who transferred with her to the tail section of the Mitchell bomber were trained to install de-icing boots by a male leadman. They learned how to master the work in a short time. They were the only women employed in the department. Eventually, more women began moving into the department and Baker and her partner were responsible for showing them how to do the work. The men "kidded" the women, but there were never any problems between the sexes. Baker believes that the men were happy that women took over the job of installing de-icing boots, claiming that men "rather be putting the plane together than just standing there putting the boots on." (1:30-3:49)... While working in the tail section, Baker was promoted to lead. As lead, she experienced "minor" difficulties with her crew of eighteen women. A White southerner complained about working with Blacks. Baker told her that she "had five brothers out in the Pacific and they were all fighting at the same time and why couldn't she stand in there and work next to someone." Baker did not have any problems working with Black women except for the time when two of the boot punchers got into a physical altercation. (3:49-5:50)... There was a three-month waiting period before Baker could join the union. Although she joined the union, she could not recall the name of the union, local meetings, or union dues. The union was not that important to her at the time because her energy was focused on "getting those planes out." (5:50-8:16)... Baker talks more about the physical altercation that erupted between two Black women working under her supervision. The women were immediately dismissed from North American. However, the union got involved and Baker was summoned to a labor relations hearing to testify. She came away from the experience shaken and remembers going to the rest room and having a good cry. The women returned to work at the plant several months later. (8:16-10:33)... After she became lead, Baker attended a six-week training course on office procedures. The course was part of a USC extension program and was held in the administrative offices at North American. The goal was to teach women how to complete the paperwork required in their jobs. Only women attended the course, including the women leads and foremen's secretaries who worked in the plant. Baker received a certificate for her participation in the course. (10:33-12:43)... When de-icing boots were scrapped from bomber production around 1943, Baker was offered a choice between working in production or working as a foreman's secretary [later referred to as department clerk]. She took the job because it meant that she could stay clean and "stay dressed." She describes some of her responsibilities in this position. Baker received a shop pass and could roam around the plant if she did not have any work to do. By this time, her sister, two brothers, and her sister-in-law also were working at North American. (12:43-14:08)... Once Baker began working at North American, her inferiority complex vanished "since I found out that I could do a lot of things that I didn't know I could do." Even while completing the monotonous job of buffing tubes during her first three weeks at the plant, she never questioned her ability to do the work. She was quite delighted when she was transferred out of that department and started doing more challenging production work. (14:08-15:54)... She does not recall taking breaks throughout the work day. Employees were given a thirty-minute lunch break, and sat down in their production area to eat lunch. Most people brought their lunch or purchased food from a lunch wagon that went to each department. Lunch breaks were nice because men and women sat around and talked about the "war and what was going on and the events of the day." (15:54-17:14)... Baker got to know her co-workers pretty well. She remained lifelong friends with one woman, Gwen Thomas. Like Baker, most of the people at the plant were there because they "needed a job and I'd say that the majority of them were as patriotic as I was and wanted to hurry up and get this thing over with." (17:14-19:29)... One of Baker's brothers was in the army at the time Pearl Harbor was attacked. He escaped injury. Two of her brothers served in a military supply unit similar to the Merchant Marine. Those brothers returned to the US around 1944 and began working at North American, one in sheet metal and the other as an inspector. One of her sisters worked in the blue print department for about six months. Baker's oldest brother and his wife worked at North American until the war ended. (19:29-20:15)... When she became lead and then shop clerk [referred to earlier as foreman's secretary] she received a department pass and a shop pass that allowed her to go anywhere in the plant except restricted areas. No one in the plant could access other departments without a pass. (20:15-22:28)... She does not recall men teasing or flirting with women in the plant, but she believes that anything was possible. She recounts an incident when two women army inspectors were arrested for smuggling information out of the plant. There were security checkpoints at the plant entrance and employees were required to show their identification badge and submit their lunch pails for inspection. People knew they were not supposed to talk about their work and there were signs reminding people of this. (22:28-24:41)... The women Baker worked with were between 25-35 years old; some were mothers and some were grandmothers. The women seemed to get along well and age did not make a difference in establishing friendships. Black and White women socialized together, but also tended to stay within their own racial groups during lunch breaks. Baker cannot recall there being any Asians, Latinas or "Okies" in her department. Most of her co-workers were from the Los Angeles area except for a woman who was from Georgia. (24:41-27:10)... Baker was required to wear glasses and a hat when she worked in production. She hurt herself on a drill once and was taken to first aid. First aid clinics were stationed throughout the plant and doctors and nurses provided services to employees. When Baker worked as department clerk, she could obtain aspirin from the first aid station and dispense it to anyone in her department who had a headache. (27:10-28:58)... Baker does not recall any Women's Counselors or other types of company services offered at North American. However, the company assisted employees with housing needs. After living with friends for about six months, Baker moved into a one-bedroom home and sent for her eleven-year-old daughter. Her mother also came down to Los Angeles to take care of her daughter. When she was forced to move out of the one-bedroom home, North American located a two-bedroom apartment for Baker in Redondo Beach for $42.50 per month. End of tape. *** File: rrrmbaker6.mp3 (0:00-3:26)... Baker describes her apartment in Redondo Beach, where she moved in December 1943. It was difficult with no men around to help her move. She hired a moving company and the movers stole all her Christmas tree ornaments. A friend rented a one-bedroom apartment in the same complex and Baker's mother baby sat the children. North American found a carpool for Baker and her friend, and it took them approximately twenty minutes to get to the plant from their home in Redondo Beach. (3:26-3:57)... Baker worked the day shift during the war. Her shift was cut back from ten hours to eight hours a day when allied forces invaded Europe. When Baker returned to North American after the war, she worked the nightshift. (3:57-5:01)... She was at work the day that FDR died, recalling that "everyone was unhappy about that." Rationing did not affect her family too much because she received coupons for three people. They got tired of eating lamb, which was not rationed like other types of meat. (5:01-7:59)... Baker worked seven days a week, ten hours a day, receiving overtime pay for Saturdays. She did her grocery shopping pay day. The grocery store where she shopped cashed her paychecks, so she did not find it necessary to open up a bank account. She very rarely had any money left over for savings. In addition to her earnings, she received $40 a month from her ex-husband for child support. When they divorced, she got $1,000 from the sale of their home. However, she spent most of this money on living expenses and paying her mother's medical bills. Describing her neighborhood in Redondo, she notes that it was just as desolate as Mojave when she first moved there. (7:59-10:41)... Baker's parents separated when her mother was in her early fifties, and her mother went to work as a caretaker for an invalid woman living in San Francisco. Eventually, she moved to Los Angeles to take care of Baker's daughter. She also did all of the cooking and cleaning for the family. When Baker remarried, her mother got another job as a caretaker for an invalid woman in Sacramento. After three years at that job, she returned to Baker's father in San Francisco because she felt it was her "duty" to take care of him while he was suffering from a heart condition. (10:41-13:28)... Baker describes what a typical day was like for her during the war. Aside from spending time with her mother and her daughter, Baker's home was often a meeting place for family and friends. She started dating a few months after moving to Los Angeles. She comments: "Why not. I wasn't sour and I had hoped to get married again someday." She frequently attended USO dances that were held near Harbor Medical Hospital and also learned of USO activities through North American. (13:28-16:26)... She remembers North American's company newspaper, the Skywriter. She was featured in the newspaper during the war when the department clerks were photographed while having dinner at the Palladium. When she returned to North American after the war, she was recognized in another article for initiating a fund for a male co-worker in need of an artificial leg. (16:26-17:43)... Besides the opportunity to wear nice clothes and carry a shop pass, Baker did not notice any major changes that accompanied her position as department clerk. She was placed in an office located on the plant floor and continued to interact with the same people she worked with while in production. Her former co-workers in production did not treat her any differently when she became a clerk. (17:43-19:16)... North American organized transportation for women workers who wanted to attend USO activities. However, she could not recall what types of recreational activities or social clubs the company sponsored, but thinks that many of these clubs were advertised in the Skywriter and mainly catered to male employees. The company also held a picnic at a park in San Fernando during the war. (19:16-24:48)... Baker thought that she would remain at North American after the war was over. However, she left the company in August 1945 because her second husband got a job at San Bernardino High School and they had to move. She describes how she met her husband, indicating that they were married in April 1945, just two weeks after they met. They honeymooned in San Francisco for one week. After the honeymoon, Baker returned to North American and her husband continued his term of duty with the Merchant Marine. (24:48-27:12)... Even though she knew that production and the labor force at North American would decrease after the war, she hoped she would keep her job. She figured that the company would need department clerks regardless of the drop in production and she felt confident that she would not get laid off. Had she not remarried, she would have stayed at the company. She was happy that her husband was pursuing a teaching career and she did not mind leaving her job so that he could teach in San Bernardino. She was looking forward to "being a wife and maybe a future mother. I wanted another child [and] I was happy to be a housewife." After moving to San Bernardino, however, she went to work in a department store because, she says, "I've never been lazy in my life." End of tape.
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