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Nestor, Barbara (audio interview #3 of 10)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This second interview, conducted in Nestor's home in south central Los Angeles, ranges widely, but mainly focuses on her years Denver and Fort Collins in the 1910s. Nestor's hearing and general health were rather good on this occasion, and the audio quality is generally good, although there are a series of several skips on tape 2b. Her daughter, Dorothy Healey participates in the interview briefly, recalling the communal living group in Denver in 1919. 10/18/1974
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- SUBJECT BIO - Barbara Nestor, the mother of Dorothy Healey (former chair, Southern California District, CPUSA), was a radical activist in her own right. Born in Hungary, she was raised first in St. Louis and then in Denver, Colorado. She became a socialist when she was only sixteen, and joined the Socialist Party in 1915. During WWI, she engaged in anti-war agitation. In 1919, when the Communist Party was formed in the US, she joined. After moving to Oakland, California in 1921 with her husband, Joe Rosenblum, and her children, she maintained a high level of activity, particularly with the International Labor Defense, and often risked arrest. She did not re-join the Communist Party until 1936, five years after she moved to Los Angeles. The interviews about the Los Angeles years detail the kind of rank and file organizing in which she engaged. Nestor's oral history sheds light both on her own thinking and on the influence she had on the development of her children's radicalism. Her interviews also reveal a great deal about her relationship with her daughter, Dorothy Healey and her grandson, Richard, for whom she had primary caretaking responsibilities, especially during the 1950s and the Smith Act trials. TOPICS - pacifism and transition into socialism; attitudes towards Franklin D; Roosevelt; fascism; W;W;I; antiwar activities; Palmer Raids and Red Scare period; and attitudes of IWW;joining Socialist Party in 1915; impression of Kate Richards O'Hare; children, motherhood, pregnancy, and homemaking; husband (Joe Rosenblum) and family background; move to Fort Collins and living conditions; communal living;communal living experience in Denver, Colorado and attitudes towards marriage, infidelity, free love, and Emma Goldman;
- *** File: refbnestor3.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-1:51)... Tape introduction (1:51-7:46)... The interview begins abruptly with a discussion of women's status in history. She discusses woman's suffrage and the popular notion that a women's votes would end wars. On the contrary, she believes that women are often more overt in their expression of patriotism than men. Nestor identifies herself as a pacifist and recalls opposing the Spanish-American War when she was fourteen years old. When she was introduced to socialism at the age of seventeen, she began to analyze her pacifist position. She discusses her attitudes towards Franklin D. Roosevelt, indicating that while some of his policies were effective, she generally did not not agree with his decisions related to international conflict and war. (7:46-17:08)... She discusses her involvement with the American League Against War and Fascism in Los Angeles and the forums sponsored at Manual Arts High School; she was the chair of a committee on social understanding. She describes meeting an Episcopalian minister who was a fascist and a supporter of Benito Mussolini. She confronted this man during a forum where he was discussing the invasion of Ethiopia. She digresses and recounts a confrontation she had with a professor from UCLA over WWI propaganda. (17:08-18:30)... Nestor's socialist views tempered her pacifist position, e.g. it was necessary to support WWII to destroy Adolph Hitler. She subscribes to Karl Marx's view in the Communist Manifesto that violence is necessary when attempting to resist violence. (18:30-27:01)... Nestor traces her opposition to WWI and her attitudes towards Woodrow Wilson's contradictory views on the war. When the US entered the War in 1917, she protested wherever speakers gathered to present pro-war statements. Once, in Fort Collins, she risked arrest for challenging a speaker who was recruiting volunteers to sell war bonds. She recalls that 50-200 people protested the war effort in her area. She was never physically threatened because of her activities and recalls that the residents in her neighborhood, most of whom were Germans, opposed the war effort. However, many people were afraid to speak out against the war. (27:01-30:16)... Nestor continues discussing her attitudes towards Wilson's war policies and the shift in sentiment to a pro-war stance. Following the sinking of the Lusitania , many people thought that Wilson was a murderer because he refused to restrict Americans from traveling on ships. She recalls that the IWW was attacked during the war period because it was the most vocal organization opposing the war. In general, there were two groups in the socialist movement: those who supported the war and aligned themselves with people like Jane Addams, and those who did not . (30:16-34:01)... Nestor recounts an incident at a PTA meeting when a woman confronted an army officer who was delivering pro-war rhetoric. Many people who opposed the war were not active in radical circles. However, most people supported the war effort. As she had stated previously, most of the people in her neighborhood opposed the war. She also details more about her experience in Fort Collins when she opposed the sale of war bonds. (34:01-38:48)... During the Palmer Raids, many foreign-born members of the Socialist Party were deported to Mexico or to other South American and Slavic countries. She recalls that eighty-eight people were arrested in Denver during the raids. A committee was formed to help with their legal defense. Nestor believes that many of the arrests were a result of names that the secretary of the Socialist Party turned over to the Department of Justice. (38:48-42:27)... Nestor discusses the IWW in Denver. Most of the Wobblies worked in the mines and the fields. She recalls that the police often attacked the IWW headquarters, which required that they move from place to place. Although IWW and SP meetings were separate, IWW speakers often gave lectures at socialist meetings on Sundays. She was very sympathetic to the IWW and its political ideology, and made friends with many Wobblies, including Fannie Hall, who was a strong advocate of violent methods. (42:27-45:02)... Nestor describes her interest and early involvement with the Socialist Party. Although she attended her first meeting at the age of sixteen, she did not join the party until 1915 when she was more than thirty years old. During this interim period, she was busy caring for her children and did not believe in neglecting them for her political activities. When she finally decided to join the party, Dorothy was only three years old. However, Nestor felt it was important to come out in opposition to WWI. end of tape *** File: refbnestor4.mp3 (0:00-5:25)... In 1915, she joined the Socialist Party in opposition to WWI. However, she was somewhat limited in her activity because of child care responsibilities. In 1921, when she moved to California, her activity trailed off even more because she moved around quite a bit and also gave birth to her youngest daughter, Carol Jean, in 1925. However, she did participate in picketing efforts during labor strikes. In 1929-30, she was arrested for protesting the arrests of Archie Brown and Edgar Owen, labor union organizers. Following her arrest, the YWCA asked her give a lecture on her experiences in jail. Though hesitant to speak in front of a crowd, she agreed to give a speech and describes her experiences at this event. She explains her attitudes towards law enforcement and police brutality during protest actions. (5:25-8:54)... Between the years 1907-15, she did not participate in any socialist activities, except for attending meetings. She discusses her first husband (Joe Rosenblum) and his religious beliefs. After reading the Bible, he began to see the inconsistencies within religion and became an atheist. Though he believed in the socialist movement, he did not join the party. He was somewhat protective of her radicalism, believing that she risked a lot because of her activities, particularly during WWI. (8:54-14:38)... Note: there are several skips in the recording in this segment. In 1915, she moved from Denver to Fort Collins. She describes the atmosphere in Fort Collins and the attempt to operate a deli with her husband, Joe Rosenblum. Following a lecture given by Kate Richards O'Hare, she decided to join the Socialist Party. She discusses her idealistic views of socialism at this time and her experiences with a socialist woman who stole money and food from Nestor. (14:38-18:31)... During the year she lived in Fort Collins, she and her husband experienced financial strain. Initially, her husband worked as a waiter and then they opened a deli, but they had a difficult time supporting themselves on his income. Although she had read Margaret Sanger's literature, Nestor felt that she was in a constant state of pregnancy, giving birth to three children in two years. She describes her living conditions and the neighborhood in which she lived while in Fort Collins. (18:31-24:57)... Nestor describes a typical day as a mother caring for her small children. Her first daughter, Helen, died at the age of four. She details the names, ages and birth order of her children. Although she nursed her children, it did not prevent her from becoming pregnant. Her husband's work schedule was odd and he was usually home late in the evenings and during the afternoon in between his shifts at the restaurant. When he was home, he very rarely helped Nestor with the care of the house and the children. She discusses her husband's family background and her impression of his parents. (24:57-25:58)... After she married, her relationship with her parents was pleasant, but she was resentful towards them for not allowing her to pursue an education. She describes a confrontation with her mother over her socialist beliefs and her parents decision to keep her out of school. (25:58-32:31)... Note: there is an interruption in the recording in this segment. While a member of the Socialist Party, she used the name Bess and did not begin using the name Barbara until 1929. She digresses regarding a confrontation with a police officer while distributing leaflets in Berkeley. She also describes an exchange between a stool pigeon of the party and a Finnish doctor regarding the Soviet Union. (32:31-37:06)... Although the population in Fort Collins was small, a large number of people were socialists. She describes O'Hare's speech in 1915 and O'Hare's involvement in the Llano "commune" [Note: the Llano colony was located in the Lancaster Valley area in southern California]. Nestor explains that many people who stayed at Llano were "spongers" and uninterested in contributing to the community. As an example, she discusses her appeal to Job Harriman to confront the woman who robbed her and then moved to the Llano. (37:06-44:26)... Note: there are several skips in the recording in this segment. Nestor's daughter, Dorothy (Healey), speaks occasionally during the interview. Nestor provides detailed information on "The Colony," a communal living group she was involved with in Denver. In addition to Nestor's family, the commune also housed Helen and Will Dietrich, and the Hannon family. Although the concept of a commune seemed appealing, it did not live up to her ideals. She describes the physical features of the community, the living and subsistence arrangements, and the responsibilities carried out by each family. She believes the greatest problem was the fighting that occurred between her children and the Hannon children. Nestor describes her feelings of relief after leaving the commune and the freedom of living alone. (Dorothy comments that the commune did not have a feeling of community identity.) end of tape *** File: refbnestor5.mp3 (0:00-4:28)... Nestor continues her discussion of "The Colony," describing specific issues related to food and Dr. Francis Hannon, as well as the difficulties that existed among the children. In addition to the problems with the children, the commune failed because there was never a conscious plan on how to make group decisions or settle differences. The atmosphere was tense and the families began to dislike each other. (4:28-9:27)... In addition to attending public school, her children attended Sunday school at The Colony. Dr. Hannon taught the classes, which she also attended. He was a good teacher, but he did not work and contributed very little to the group. She discusses financial arrangements within the group, indicating that there was not a central pool of money. The group was formed on the spur of the moment and issues regarding food and child care were not thoroughly discussed. In general, she feels that The Colony was not well organized. Though the families held similar political beliefs, they had very little else in common. (9:27-15:16)... Nestor discusses her impression of Dr. Hannon and his wife, Minnie. Though a socialist, Minnie held small town prejudices. Nestor describes Dr. Hannon as a philanderer with a large following of young women. She did not approve of his behavior. Though she was a radical, she still valued the sanctity of marriage. When her daughters were teen-agers, she spoke to them about the value of marriage, particularly when children were involved. She discusses her attitudes towards free love, indicating that most of her socialist friends preferred marriage. Like many of her socialists friends, she did not have very much respect for Emma Goldman or the persona portrayed within her writings. (18:45-22:59)... Nestor decided to leave The Colony because her children were very unhappy there. In addition, she disliked cooking and did not want to contribute to the group any longer. After she left, the differences between the Hannons and the Dietrichs became even more pronounced and the Hannons then left. Nestor didn't feel that the Hannons contributed equally to The Colony in terms of work or money, although Dr. Hannon was useful in providing the colony access to education. After The Colony broke up, the Dietrichs owned and managed the land for several years. (15:16-18:45)... Nestor discusses her relationship with the Hannons and the Dietrichs. Though her relationship with Dr. Hannon was equal, he was very knowledgeable about socialism and Marxism and did a good job teaching these subjects. However, she believes that Helen Dietrich understood the meaning and purpose of socialism more than the others. Nestor believes that Dr. Hannon was overly friendly with her because she had wealthy friends in the Denver community and he wanted to develop a School of Social Sciences using her financial connections. However, she felt uncomfortable asking her friends for money. (22:59-25:49)... Nestor's views on communal living were very idealistic. When she decided to participate in The Colony, she did not have any practical knowledge on the different aspects of communal living. At the time, most of her knowledge of communal living came from the example of the Llano colony. She later learned that many people associated with the Llano were bums who caused friction within the group. She believes that Job Harriman and others tried to make Llano a successful communal living compound. (25:49-27:04)... Her husband was largely indifferent about The Colony, but he went along with her decision to be involved and was always cordial to the other families as well as visitors. She recalls that when visitors stayed too long, he played Home Sweet Home as a way of inducing people to leave. end of tape
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