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Pidgeon, Mary Elizabeth (audio interview #1 of 1)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - One rather long interview was conducted with Mary Elizabeth Pidgeon in her apartment located in a Quaker retirement community outside of Washington, D.C. Gracious and eager to participate in the interview process, she began to tire only towards the end of the interview. Her interview reveals valuable insights both into the working of the Women's Bureau and its relationship to women's organizations.
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- 2021-03-04
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- SUBJECT BIO - Mary Elizabeth Pidgeon joined the Women's Bureau of the Department of Labor in 1928 and remained there until her retirement. One of two daughters born to an old Quaker family, Pidgeon was raised in Virginia. After she received her BA, she worked as a field secretary for the NAWSA (National American Woman Suffrage Association), and was assigned to the suffrage campaigns in various states. After teaching for six years at the University of Virginia, she went on to get her MA and begin doctoral studies in political science at the University of Chicago. Discouraged by the opportunities available to women with Ph.Ds in political science, she never wrote her dissertation. Instead, in 1928, she went to the work as a research economist at the US Department of Labor, Women's Bureau. Within a few years, she established the Research Division, which she headed until her retirement. The interview with Pidgeon reveals not only her own life course, but also the changes in the Women's Bureau and its relationship with women social reformers and women's organizations. The interview was conducted under the auspices of the Feminist History Research Project. TOPICS - family background; family life; education; teaching career; participation in woman's suffrage movement; organizing work in NAWSA; Alice Paul and the NWP; Equal Suffrage League; LWV; doctoral studies at the University of Chicago; and contact with Sophonisba Breckinridge and Edith Abbott;doctoral studies at the University of Chicago; teaching position at the University of Virginia; Women's Bureau; Mary Anderson; Committee of Women's Organizations; political and social backgrounds of women at the Women's Bureau; feminism and women's rights; formation of Equal Suffrage League in college; Mary Hilton's reorganization of Women's Bureau; Women's Bureau under Mary Hilton compared to Mary Anderson; structure of Women's Bureau in the late 1920s; relationship between Women's Bureau and women's organizations; leadership style of Frieda Miller; expansion of scope of studies; Handbook for Women Workers; Ethel Erickson; living arrangements; retirement; activities with the AAUW; doctoral studies and studying abroad; and reflections about her career; Mary Anderson's opposition to the ERA; studies on impact of protective legislation; and attitudes about the ERA and labor legislation;
- *** File: refmpidgeon1.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-3:56)... Pidgeon was born in Shenandoah Valley, Virginia in 1890. Her ancestors came from England and settled in Pennsylvania; her family was among the many Quakers who migrated to Virginia. In addition to owning a 300-acre farm and a dairy, her father operated a country store and held many town posts, such as postmaster, railroad agent, and Justice of the Peace. Her mother was a homemaker and managed the household and their large vegetable garden. (3:56-6:15)... Pidgeon was raised in a Quaker household. Her grandparents were among the first to develop the Quaker meeting house in Shenandoah Valley in 1732. During the bicentennial, the meeting house was designated as a historical monument. Pidgeon was educated in a one-room schoolhouse with approximately forty children. Her parents were educated at Swarthmore College. Her mother was a talented writer and artist. After college, she managed her family's household until she married. Pidgeon believes that her parents met at a Quaker meeting. (6:15-8:04)... While growing up, Pidgeon enjoyed reading books from her parents' large library. In addition to fairy tales and other children's stories, she enjoyed reading history and poetry. In college, she pursued a broadly based curriculum that concentrated on the social and natural sciences. She received a BA in English and an MA in political science. (8:04-8:54)... The Quaker meeting house was located approximately five miles from Pidgeon's home, and it was the center of activity for the Quakers living in the surrounding areas. Most of her friends were Quakers; however, she also lived near and befriended many Methodists. Her family attended the Methodist Church on Sunday evenings to see Methodist plays. (8:54-11:12)... Pidgeon does not recall having any expectations for her future when she was a young girl. She was educated in a small school in Waterford, Virginia and attended high school at a Friends boarding school. It was not until high school when she began thinking about a career as an English teacher. She obtained a scholarship to Swarthmore College and received a BA in English in 1913. Pidgeon taught at a Friends school in Pennsylvania for a couple of years until she was hired as a field secretary for Carrie Chapman Catt and NAWSA. In the early 1920s, she began teaching at the University of Virginia and decided to resume her studies. She obtained an MA in political science in 1924. (11:12-12:06)... Pidgeon and her parents did not discuss women's equality and suffrage while she was growing up. She felt that she was an individual with a great deal of freedom in the environment in which she lived. Household responsibilities were divided evenly between Pidgeon and a younger sister. (12:06-16:54)... Pidgeon became a volunteer worker for NAWSA in 1915 during the state campaign for suffrage in Pennsylvania. At the time, she was teaching at a Friends elementary school and was not particularly enjoying her work. Even though she appreciated her students and fellow co-workers, the pay was poor and she no longer found the work appealing. While working as a volunteer for NAWSA, she was asked to give a speech on suffrage at a local meeting. She was eventually hired as a field secretary for NAWSA. (16:54-20:18)... In 1917, Pidgeon was sent to NAWSA headquarters in Washington, DC to await her first assignment. There were many prominent women at the headquarters and it was a very exciting time. Her first assignment was in New York. She did campaign work in Buffalo from February to July and was then transferred to Auburn and put in charge of the NAWSA headquarters for Cayuga County. She outlines her responsibilities as field secretary and the work she accomplished while in Auburn. (20:18-23:14)... While at NAWSA headquarters, Pidgeon received only basic training, mainly learning background information on the organization and its policies. Since there were women at the headquarters from several different states, the women often discussed the status of suffrage activities in their areas. There may have been a public speaking school; however, Pidgeon did not take any public speaking lessons while in Washington since she had taken some of these courses in college. Most of the field secretaries were accomplished public speakers. In addition to speaking at club meetings, they also gave speeches on street corners. Occasionally, they were heckled and it was typical for men to ask, "Why don't you stay home and take care of your children?" (23:14-24:53)... Suffragists campaigning in New York in 1917 generally were well received by the public and political parties. It was important for NAWSA to gain the support of influential political figures. Pidgeon worked on the 1917 campaign from February until the election was won in November. She then returned to New York for a general meeting and reassignment, and in 1918 was sent to work on the suffrage campaign in South Dakota. (24:53-30:03)... Pidgeon's starting wage as a field secretary was $75/month plus expenses. As field secretary in South Dakota, she handled six counties. The regional headquarters was located in Huron and field secretaries periodically reported their work to headquarters. NAWSA abandoned its earlier policy of sending states money to start suffrage groups because it was not producing effective results. Thus, an important aspect of Pidgeon's work involved organizing local suffrage groups. The women she organized were local leaders in religious organizations or women's groups who could mobilize women for suffrage work. Pidgeon taught women effective campaigning strategies and guided them regarding NAWSA policies and procedures. The suffrage campaign in South Dakota was won in 1918. The successes in the suffrage campaign were partly due to women's efforts during WWI. She agrees with the adage "there is nothing that stops an idea when its time has come." (30:03-33:14)... Pidgeon describes Alice Paul as a very capable woman who was successful in gaining a lot of publicity for suffrage. However, like many women in NAWSA, Pidgeon felt that Paul's efforts "did more harm than good." In contrast, Catt took a less aggressive approach in order to gain the support of the public for a federal amendment. Pidgeon discusses her attitude towards Paul's "social" agenda for issues like equal pay for women. The work done by NAWSA was a more practical approach to gaining rights for women. (33:14-37:01)... When Pidgeon finished her work in South Dakota, NAWSA placed her in Virginia to work on the ratification drive for the federal amendment. She worked with the Equal Suffrage League there. NAWSA periodically assigned Pidgeon to other states, such as North Carolina and Tennessee. In the early 1920s, the LWV recruited Pidgeon to work on an educational extension program in cooperation with the University of Virginia. She discusses this program and her responsibilities. (37:01-41:38)... Pidgeon worked at the University of Virginia for approximately six years, during which time she resumed her studies and obtained an MA in political science. She was accepted into the doctorate program at the University of Chicago where she had the opportunity to meet and take courses with Sophonisba Breckinridge and Edith Abbott. Although she finished her residency requirements and coursework, Pidgeon did not complete her doctoral thesis. Very few, if any, women were being hired in the field of political science and she decided that it was a waste of money to finish her degree in light of the job market. In the interim, she studied in Geneva for a year and spent six weeks at the Institute Universite Internationale listening to lectures on the policies and principles of the League of Nations. End of tape. *** File: refmpidgeon2.mp3 (0:00-3:25)... Pidgeon continues to discuss her reasons for not continuing her doctoral studies at the University of Chicago. While she was there, she was immersed in her doctoral studies and most of her contact with women involved in the economic and social welfare programs took place in Green Hall. (3:25-10:05)... While studying at the University of Chicago, Pidgeon's teaching position at the University of Virginia remained open in anticipation of her return to the university. When she finished with her studies in Chicago, she returned to Virginia and continued teaching. She also worked as the executive secretary of the Women's Council of the Legislative Chairman of State. She was eventually offered a position with the Women's Bureau. (10:05-17:33)... Pidgeon was hired as an assistant in the Editorial Division at the Women's Bureau. She worked in this position for about two years, during which time she helped develop the Research Division. She describes the structure and function of the Research Division. In addition to developing studies based on internal suggestions and feedback, the Women's Bureau was greatly influenced by women's groups and external sources. Mary Anderson encouraged this collaboration and created the Committee of Women's Organizations within the bureau for this purpose. (17:33-24:10)... Pidgeon describes herself as a feminist in her own time. Her concern for women's issues began when she became an advocate for woman's suffrage and formed an Equal Suffrage League while in college. Her advocacy for women continued throughout her life and was particularly notable in her work with the Women's Bureau. Many women in the bureau were concerned with women's issues and like her had previously been employed in organizations that worked on behalf of women. Many of the women employed at the bureau also were active in women's groups outside the bureau. The Women's Bureau also hired capable, young women enthusiastic about the "women's movement" and social reform. According to Pidgeon, "we were working for women. That is what we were doing." The function of the bureau was to handle matters directly related to women and their status in the workforce. (24:10-32:59)... When a study was approved by Mary Anderson and assigned to the Research Division, it was Pidgeon's responsibility to develop an agenda and initiate the study. Her staff consisted of a secretary and three research assistants. She describes some of the studies conducted by the Research Division during her tenure with the Women's Bureau. The bureau often submitted its findings and statistical information to women's groups. If a particular study needed more funding, women's groups would come forward and provide support for the study. The divisions were responsible for conducting the studies and the administrators of the bureau dealt with the women's organizations. (32:59-39:01)... Pidgeon discusses the structure of the divisions of the Women's Bureau. In particular, she notes the differences between the Research Division and field workers. In many cases, while field workers conducted research, the results were written and published by the Research Division. The Research Division occasionally pooled resources from work conducted by field workers. However, their work was entirely separate. Each field worker was her own director and often suggested topics of study to Anderson. This structure remained intact until Mary Hilton reorganized the bureau and later became the head of the Research and the Statistical Divisions. (39:01-43:07)... When studies were conducted in the Research Division, data was either obtained from census material and statistical information previously prepared or new information was compiled. The division created the schedules for the field people if they were used to gather information. Pidgeon cites the "Documents on International Service of Women" study as an example of one that was compiled solely from existing documents. This and many other bulletins completed by the Research Division were destroyed when the Bureau underwent administrative changes [Editor's note: probably in the 1950s]. The only available copies of these earlier studies are in the Bureau archives or in library. End of tape. *** File: refmpidgeon3.mp3 (0:00-1:22)... Pidgeon continues a discussion regarding the separation between the Research Division and the field workers. Although she is not able to provide a specific date, Mary Hilton became the head of the Women's Bureau around 1950. (1:22-3:49)... The Women's Bureau operated informally in the early years of its development and still functioned in this manner when Pidgeon began to work there in 1928; and the staff was very small. Initially, there were only three departments in the Bureau: the Editorial Division, the Statistical Division, and the Field Study Division. When conferences were held with Mary Anderson, the heads of each division and a few field workers attended; in other words, only five or six people. These meetings were not held on a regular basis but only when pressing issues required a group consensus. (3:49-6:17)... There were strong friendships among the women at the Women's Bureau, particularly among those who were new to the Washington, DC area. Although Pidgeon cultivated friendships with a few co-workers, she was not dependent on those friendships because she had family living in the area and she was closely tied to her Friends church group. She did socialize with co-workers outside the office and remembers being invited to Anderson's home for social gatherings. (6:17-11:26)... As the Women's Bureau grew and increased its staff over the years, it shed its original informal structure. The development of new divisions created a more organized unit. In 1930, the Research Division was formed, followed by the Publicity Division and the Minimum Wage Division. The structure also changed when Mary Anderson left the bureau and was replaced by Frieda Miller. The two were very different in their personalities and the staff was never as devoted to Miller as they were to Anderson. In contrast to Miller, Anderson communicated with her staff personally and very rarely through correspondence. Pidgeon describes Miller as a "fly away" who was not as solidly grounded as Anderson. Yet, she was an imaginative woman who held her own amongst the heads of the larger federal agencies. (11:26-15:26)... Initially, the Women's Bureau focused its work on women in industrial jobs, and particularly the issue of shorter hours and a better minimum wage. Over time, the bureau enlarged its focus to include women employed in domestic and service industries and women in the professions. Another issue of concern was the double burden on women because of household and job responsibilities. Although the heads of the division were concerned about the status of women in society, the staff was consumed with the issues women faced in labor. (15:26-17:00)... Some women who were the heads of divisions in the Women's Bureau belonged to women's groups outside the office. She was busy with her work and previous experience taught her that working with women's groups was a very time consuming task and decided not to be affiliated with any groups while she was employed at the bureau. She was a member of the AAUW for a short time while she was working, but was unable to attend meetings. She reestablished her association with the organization when she retired. (17:00-22:28)... Pidgeon names some of the more important studies conducted during her employment with the Women's Bureau. She believes the bureau's studies made an impact on women's lives, particularly those that dealt with the effect of state legislature on women. In addition, many women's organizations benefited from bureau studies by providing these groups with the necessary background information to deal with the issues occurring within their localities. Pidgeon discusses the "Handbook for Women Workers" that was published in 1931, 1935, and 1938. Between 1948-58, Pidgeon published this handbook at the behest of Frieda Miller. (22:28-25:56)... When Frieda Miller replaced Mary Anderson at the Women's Bureau, the way in which research projects were accepted and developed did not change. The bureau remained heavily reliant on requests made by various women's groups working outside the bureau. When the business and professional women's groups were organized, the bureau expanded its research focus to include women in professional jobs and there was more demand for these types of studies. As women moved into higher-level jobs, the bureau again expanded its research to include studies in that area. Pidgeon believes that the changes in the bureau mirrored changes in society and in women's groups. (25:56-26:59)... When Pidgeon began working at the Women's Bureau in 1928, she rented an apartment and lived there for many years. Ethel Erickson stayed with her whenever she was not working in the field. She discusses Erickson's field capabilities and their friendship. (26:59-33:40)... Field workers and the Research Division cooperated even though neither division really knew the others internal procedures. The field workers provided their materials to the Statistical Division and the Research Division wrote the studies. Each division had a different approach to its area of study. The model by which the divisions were developed occurred over time as the Women's Bureau expanded and the requirements of the work demanded it. Pidgeon discusses how people were recruited and selected for positions at the bureau. Although Mary Anderson did not have any formal academic training, she was a respected leader and depended on her staff to do their jobs effectively. (33:40-39:57)... Pidgeon was happy to retire from the Women's Bureau so that she could pursue other interests. She was looking forward to the break after working for more than forty years. She discusses her retirement activities and her association with the AAUW. She reflects on her professional career as a teacher and suffragist, nothing that she was glad to resign from these positions because they required too much traveling and contact with the public. It was a relief to get into a job involving research. She discusses the "break" she took to pursue a doctorate degree at the University of Chicago. She took a similar break when she went to Europe for a year to study international relations in France. During this time, she traveled to different cities in Europe and attended educational conferences. She believes that both of these breaks prepared her for her future work at the bureau. (39:57-43:50)... Pidgeon never considered finishing her doctorate degree because the only jobs available to women in political science at the time were deanships. She learned from other women in those positions that being a Dean of Women meant that you were "under the thumb of the men" who ran the universities. Working at the Women' Bureau provided her with a more autonomous career. However, had she worked for the Bureau of Labor Statistics instead she would have had a very similar career. Grace Abbott originally interviewed Pidgeon for a position at the Children's Bureau, but she was not qualified for the position because she did not have legal training. Overall, she is happy that she ended up at the Women's Bureau. (43:50-45:00)... Pidgeon provides some closing thoughts and reiterates what she feels as the important studies published by the Women's Bureau. End of tape *** File: refmpidgeon4.mp3 (0:00-3:48)... Pidgeon talks about being interviewed by Charles Moran regarding her work at the University of Virginia in the 1920s. Moran focused his study on the women employed at the university since 1920, the first year that women were hired as faculty. She digresses regarding her involvement with the Week in Citizenship program, which eventually developed into the Institute of Public Affairs at the University of Virginia. She also published several university bulletins dealing with the election laws and the effects of Virginia laws on women and children. (3:48-9:18)... When Pidgeon began working at the Women's Bureau in 1928, the fight between the NWP and advocates of protective legislation had subsided. However, Mary Anderson was very much opposed to the ERA and was clear about her attitudes on this and labor issues. The study conducted by the bureau on the effects of labor legislation on women was a backlash to the criticism of protective legislation. Pidgeon discusses her attitudes towards the ERA and how it may affect labor legislation. End of tape.
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