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Kettler, Ernestine Hara (audio interview #1 of 6)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This initial interview with Ernestine Hara Kettler, which took place in her rather sparse room at the Olympic Hotel, provides a broad overview of her involvement in suffrage and later activities and relationships with people in various radical circles are also discussed. At times she seemed to have memory lapses and could not recall details of these activities and relationships.
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- 2020-01-28
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- *** File: sufehkettler1.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-2:29)... Tape introduction (2:29-4:26)... Born in Romania, Kettler was raised in an anarchist family. Her father was an anarchist and her mother followed her father's ideology. As a child, her anarchist background did not make an impression on her; however, these roots took hold around the age of 13 when she lived in New York City. At this time, she became acquainted with a neighborhood girl who was a radical. She and her friend visited the Socialist Party headquarters near her community. Although she was not a member of the group, and did not participate in any Socialist Party activities, she was interested in their political ideology, which strengthened her burgeoning political consciousness at the time. (4:26-5:49)... She was born on January 25, 1896. She discusses the aging process and how she felt the same as she did years ago, except that she was physically not as capable as she used to be and was closer to the end of her life. (5:49-7:46)... She moved to the United States when she was nine years old. One of her memories of her life in Romania was the tradition of following funeral processions. The morbidity of viewing a dead body finally dawned on her and she did not view a body at an open casket funeral since. She doesn't know why she chose to follow all of the other children from one funeral to another. (7:46-9:43)... As a child, her friends told her that because she was Jewish, she had to take three steps forward and three steps back when she saw a priest so that the devil would not get her. She recalls that when she was performing this ritual one day, a priest stopped her and questioned her. She had no explanation for her actions and it occurred to her that this superstition was ridiculous and she never did it again. Her mother and father were not Orthodox Jews. In fact, her mother was an agnostic. Her father died at the age of 40 and she did not know what his specific religious beliefs were. As a child, she was not taught any religious beliefs. However, her mother often told her and her siblings stories from the old testament that centered on the heroes and heroines. She recalls that these stories were better than a lot of the children's books being published at the time. (9:43-11:25)... In Romania, she lived in a suburb of Craiova. Just before she left Romania, they moved to Bucharest. After her father died, her family was very poor. Relatives who lived in the United States sent her family money to pay for the cost of coming to America. None of her relatives who lived in the United States were alive at the time of the interview, except for a cousin with whom she had nothing in common. Her brothers were both dead; and a sister was living lives in Israel. (11:25-13:34)... When she came to the United States her family settled in New York City. She went to school and did not work until she was approximately 18 years old. When she was 21, she went to Washington, DC where she became involved with the suffrage movement, after which she moved to Everett, Washington as a result of her association with a socialist woman. When she was 13 years old, she became interested in the Socialist party, but did not become politically active until she was approximately 16-17 years old. A millionaire paid her tuition for a private school education with the hope that she would become a professor. However, she did not graduate from high school. She went to college for one year, but her knowledge of subjects was very inconsistent. She lacked in one area, while she excelled in another. (13:34-16:09)... Her suffrage activities began in 1917 when she met Katherine Hodgins, a socialist from Everett, Washington. Mrs. Hodgins had gone to New York as a delegate to the Socialist Party (SP)convention. Apparently, Kettler was working for the SP in some capacity and became acquainted with Mrs. Hodgins, who told her about the women picketing the White House in support of woman's suffrage. She expressed in an interest in participating in these activities and arrangements were made for her to go to Washington, DC. She was ultimately arrested for her picketing activities and sentenced to 30 days in jail. Although this was her first exposure to the suffrage movement, she had always considered herself a "suffragette" and often argued with friends about a woman's right to vote. (Note: there is a break in the tape) (16:09-18:59)... Although she recalls going to Washington, DC she does not know what arrangements got her there. She believes that someone must have paid her fare because she did not have any money at the time. Prior to her suffrage activities, she was involved in various radical movements in New York. She knew a number of socialists, Wobblies (IWWs), and general radicals who were not committed to any particular ideology or party. She describes anarchism is an aesthetic philosophy and an ethical discipline. (Break in the tape). Although anarchism developed an organized ideology on how society should be organized, like many radical disciplines she feels that it is idealistic. Even where radical movements were realized, as in the Soviet Union, they disappointed her. (18:59-22:29)... At the time she became involved with the suffrage movement, her political ideology was anarchist, although she does not recall reading about anarchism until some 20-30 years later. As a young girl, she was more interested in novels than books that contributed to her political education. She often formed ideas about an ideal society and found it interesting that her ideas were comparable to those espoused in the books she read. (22:29-26:16)... She was in Washington, DC for approximately two months. She waited approximately one week before she went out on the picket line and then she spent 30 days in jail. Groups of four women with a banner picketed in front of the White House every day. After she was arrested for picketing and spent 30 days in jail, she was tempted to go back on the picket line, but could not stand the thought of going back into the Occoquan Work House. The food in the work house was very bad and several women became ill or starved themselves. At the time, a woman who went to jail was considered a "fallen woman." After she was released from jail, she received correspondence from Katherine Hodgins asking Kettler to come to Everett, Washington. Hodgins felt very guilty for putting her in a situation in which she was arrested and jailed for her suffrage activities. (26:16-28:58)... When she was arrested for picketing, the judge was disappointed by the fact that she was 21 years old. At the time, she looked very young, but the National Woman's Party did not permit their members to be any younger than the legal age of 21. After she was released from the Occoquan Work House she did not participate in anymore suffrage activities. She welcomed the invitation to move west. On her way west she stopped in several places. She recalls visiting a friend who believed that the picketers were ineffective in getting women the vote. Kettler argued that the picketers made an impact on government officials because many of the women who were arrested and jailed were the mothers, sisters, wives, or relatives of congressmen and other prominent men in Washington, DC. She recalls that the women who were jailed were really "beaten up" and physically injured as a result of their picketing efforts. (28:58-31:52)... On her way west, she stopped in Montana because Katherine Hodgins had asked her to purchase a pint of whiskey. At the time, Washington was a dry state. She was very nervous traveling with this bottle of whiskey because the authorities would periodically search people's bags. However, fellow passengers told her that she did not appear like a person that would be carrying any illegal substances. It was an interesting experience for her to learn about bone dry states during her trip west. When she arrived in Everett, Washington, she stayed for several months. Hodgins belonged to a socialist party in Everett, Washington and Kettler met several socialists during her stay there. Her interest in the movement grew as a result of her associations there. The arrangement in Everett did not work out, and although she had a public stenography business, she was an inexperienced office worker. She then moved to Seattle and became interested in the union movement there. In Seattle, she met and married A.L. (Archer Lyle) Emerson, a distant relative of Ralpho Waldo Emerson's, an IWW who was working as the secretary for the Construction Worker's Union. (31:52-34:27)... While living in Seattle, her experiences were varied and interesting. At this time, she worked for an AFL union; however, she was a poor employee. She is a proponent of a healthy work environment and believes that many people suffered as a result of their poor working conditions. When she worked for unions in Seattle and later in San Francisco, she mainly had clerical duties. If the union had an organizing campaign she would go if she was not working, but generally she did not do any organizing for the unions with which she worked. (34:27-37:05)... When she moved to the west coast she joined the Young People's Socialist League (YPSL). Many of her friends were radicals and members of the IWW. At the time, she was very young and fascinated by this movement. She discusses the growth of her intellectualism, stating that she was a speculative thinker and found that the books she read later in her life often reiterated many of the ideas and beliefs she developed over the years. She found herself very ignorant and uneducated in terms of general history, noting that she did not connect with knowledge of certain subjects because she was too busy thinking of her own ideas. (37:05-38:47)... She was in Seattle for approximately one year before she met her husband, who was involved in the IWW. At the time, she was a member of the YPSL and was also attending Wobbly classes and going to the IWW headquarters. During one of her visits to the headquarters, she met A.L. (Archer Lyle]) Emerson. They married a short time later and began experiencing problems with the authorities. The police were after her husband because they believed he had information on the IWW. The authorities attempted to get her husband's mail so that they would have en excuse to raid the headquarters of the Wobblies. However, they never were able to find his mail. (38:47-42:02)... When the authorities were investigating her husband, she was terrified because she did not have a lot of experience with the police. Once while she was at the post office, she was approached by a police officer and asked to accompany him to a room for questioning. She was very scared and bewildered by the numerous questions she was asked by the police. Apparently, the authorities believed she was Ernestine Evans, a radical journalist from France, whom they believed had returned to the United States. She used all her efforts to convince the police that she was not this woman. They also questioned her about a German acquaintance of hers who had just given her a book of poetry. After an hour of questioning the police were convinced of her innocence and she was released. Even though she was scared, she did not display a persona of helplessness to prove her innocence. (42:02-43:39)... After she married, she continued working for the unions and stayed in Seattle for another eight months. She was not a very industrious worker and her experience was limited. end of tape *** File: sufehkettler2.mp3 (0:00-1:27)... She joined the Bookkeepers and Stenographers Union in Seattle, but she did not stay affiliated with them for very long. Her main interests were with the IWW and YPSL. However, her activities with the Wobblies were limited to her presence at meetings and social activities. (1:27-4:00)... Although there were several women involved with the IWW, there was a gendered division of labor within the organization; women were responsible for all of the cooking and served the men at their meetings, while men did all of the organizing and speaking. There was a young girl in the organization who was a singer and often led the Wobblies in song at the beginning of their meetings. The Wobblies worshipped her because they were not used to meeting respectable women. They thought she was an angel and did not touch her for fear they would defile her. Their attitudes about women were still very old fashioned. The IWW moved their headquarters several times. For some time they were located on skid row where all of the lumberjacks would come when their jobs were over. At this time, she was attending meetings of both the IWW and YPSL. (4:00-5:26)... She lived in Seattle during the 1920 general strike. At the time, she was very young and naive and does not recall much about the strike. There were several opposing opinions of the strike circulated among radicals and liberals. (5:26-7:57)... Kettler does not recall working during the 1920 general strike; most of her employment was temporary . Although she was a good typist, her stenographic work left something to be desired. She was having a good time during this point in her life. She and her husband separated some time in 1923-24 when they were living in Michigan. They did not have any children during their marriage. She went to New York briefly and returned to Seattle some time in 1924, after spending the summer of 1924 in Madison, Wisconsin taking courses in German and history at the University of Wisconsin. (7:57-11:36)... The period after her first marriage marks a time when she moved around quite often. In 1923, she went to New York for a short time and then to Montana, where she worked for the IWW as a stenographer. She then went to Chicago and worked with the IWW for a few months, during which time the organization initiated discussions of splitting. She returned to Seattle in 1924, and after one year went to San Francisco, only to return to Seattle to marry her second husband. She left after that and never returned to the city again. (11:36-14:02)... When she went to San Francisco she worked for Dunn and Bradstreet for a short period. She was in San Francisco for approximately eight months to one year. In 1936, her husband died and she returned to New York. In 1938, she began working for unions and continued until her retirement. Kettler talks about her memory loss, stating that the events being discussed were in the distant past, which may account for her problem in placing events in their correct time frame. (14:02-18:08)... Her second husband was an intellectual man and worked as a printer. Although he was amongst radicals his entire life and understood the movement, he did not hold any strong convictions. <interruption in tape> After she married her second husband, they moved to Sausalito and she worked in San Rafael and San Francisco doing secretarial work. In San Rafael she worked as a clerk for the Department of Employment. The office was very small and she worked with only four other employees, which gave her the opportunity to learn many office functions. One of her responsibilities was interviewing people and placing them in jobs. Following her husband's death, she returned to New York and worked for a number of businesses. In particular, she worked for the Department of Employment before it became the United States Employment Service. She was making the minimum wage at this agency, which was $75-120 per month. (18:08-20:27)... The State Relief Administration preceded the Works Progress Administration. Prior to obtaining a job, a person was required to be made eligible by the State Relief Administration, the first statewide relief organization developed. As an employee of the Department of Employment, she certified people for the State Relief Administration. She recalls one gentlemen who came looking for assistance with a savings of $2,500.00, which he was saving for "rainy day." She laughed and said that the Depression was that rainy day and to come back when he had no means by which to support himself. (20:27-24:18)... In January 1938, she returned to San Francisco and stayed in Sausalito until February when the city experienced forty days of consistent rain. To get into the city she had to walk to the bus station in wet and muddy conditions. She finally decided not to go into the city until the rains ended. She later moved into the city of San Francisco and worked for the unions there. While she was in New York, she joined the Office Employees Union and transferred her membership when she got to San Francisco. At this time she was also in the CIO. She does not recall the general strikes in San Francisco in 1934 or 1936. In 1936 she was working for an AFL union and continued to work for various labor unions until after World War II. (24:18-25:50)... When she worked for the AFL waterfront union, her job was to send men to a training school where they were trained and shipped out to fight in World War II. She recalls that the men had to have an affidavit saying they were not sailing during the 1934 and 1936 general strikes. Her responsibility was to interview these men and provide them with a card for the maritime school. She recalls that during her interview with southern men they made remarks such as "I hope there aren't any goddamn niggers on those boats," to which she told them they were going to be very unhappy stating, "there are niggers on those boats and you are going to either take it or just get off the ships. You are not going to be happy on any ships." end of tape
- SUBJECT BIO - Ernestine Kettler was one of the suffragists who was arrested for picketing the White House with the National Woman's Party. She served time at the Occoquan Work House, where she participated in the strikes launched by the suffragist prisoners to be recognized as political prisoners. Shortly after this, Kettler went west, where she worked initially with the I.W.W. (Industrial Workers of the World) and later for various trade unions in both San Francisco and Los Angeles. She remained an ardent feminist her entire life and had a long history of labor and socialist activism. Her involvement with the suffrage struggle, though short-lived, was an outgrowth of both her feminist beliefs and her ties to political and bohemian circles in New York that began in her teen years. Kettler was among the former suffragists who spoke at the Jubilee celebration of woman's suffrage in Los Angeles, and she was referred to the Feminist History Research Project by leaders of Los Angeles NOW. Approximately 7 hours were recorded with her in January and February, 1973, when she was 78 years old. The interviews were conducted mainly in her room at a residential hotel overlooking MacArthur Park in Los Angeles. A petite woman, who was still very intellectually inquiring and physically vigorous, she nevertheless seemed rather depressed. Her health failed over the next two years, and she moved into an assisted living facility, where a final, brief interview was conducted in 1975. She lived there until her death in 1978. TOPICS - Topics covered on this side of the tape include: Kettler's childhood and early family life in Rumania; the family's immigration; her early radicalism and contacts with IWW and SP; and her participation in the National Woman's Party suffrage campaign in Washington, DC, including her arrest and jail time in the Occoquan Work HouseTopics covered on this side of the tape include Kettler's move west; her involvement with the IWW and YPSL in Seattle; the gender ideology of the Wobblies; and her clerical work for unions, including work during WWII; 1/17/1973
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