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Hoffman, Margarite (audio interview #2 of 3)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the second of three interviews with Margarite Hoffman, conducted in the living room of her mobile phone in Pomona. Although she was skeptical about the value of her participation in the project, Hoffman was a very willing participant. She was very direct and open in the interview. 5/8/1980
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- 2021-07-23
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- *** File: rrrmhoffman5.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-4:23)... Note: there is an interruption in this segment when Hoffman answers the door. By the time Hoffman and her family moved to Santa Ana, her children were in grade school. She decided to get a job because her husband's salary barely covered their living expenses. She got a job making draperies for JC Penney and a local drapery store. JC Penneys provided her with a drapery table and she worked out of her house most of the time. This allowed her to be there for her daughters when they got home from school. Occasionally, her daughters helped with housework, but she did not depend on them because they were busy with their own activities. Her husband supported her decision to go back to work because she was able to stay home with the children. Hoffman worked in this field until WWII. (4:23-5:24)... While living in Santa Ana, Hoffman was not involved in community activities because of work and family obligations. Occasionally, she and her husband went to a movie for entertainment; however, she states that the "main thing in their lives were the girls and making sure they had what they needed." Her daughters were active in extracurricular activities and Hoffman stayed busy transporting her children to and from these events. (5:24-9:42)... Hoffman learned about job opportunities at Douglas through a co-worker at JC Penneys. They applied for work in September 1942. She describes the application process at Douglas, indicating that she arrived at the Long Beach plant at 9:00 a.m. and did not leave the office until late in the evening. She was told to report for training the following Monday. While in training, she learned how to drill, rivet, and read a blue print. After about two weeks of training, she and several hundred women were assigned to the plant. Hoffman recalls that they went into the plant "green as could be and what men were there really didn't like it and we didn't get a good reception." She was assigned to work on the wing section of B-17 aircraft. (9:42-11:59)... Hoffman decided to apply for a job at Douglas because the pay was higher than the piecework rate she earned while making drapes. When she started at Douglas, she was paid .60 cents an hour. She worked six days a week and was paid time and a half on Saturdays. She earned approximately $30 to $35 a week. Her family was supportive when she decided to go to work at Douglas and her husband was proud of her. He applied for work at Douglas, but by the time he was offered a position there, he had already accepted a better offer in the shipyards. Her husband earned $1.15 per hour and worked seven days a week, ten hours a day during the war. (11:59-12:33)... She talks about her initial expectations about going to work at Douglas, stating, "everybody else was doing it and making good money, so I thought I could do it too." She applied for a job at Douglas when she was forty-four years old and she thought that the company would not hire her because she was too old. (12:33-16:06)... Hoffman describes the interview process that took place when she applied for a job at Douglas. After the initial interview, she was sent to another area to await a physical examination. Following the physical, employees were either told to report to the training school or were sent directly into the plant. When she was hired, Hoffman was not told what type of work she would be completing in the plant. She received her assignment once she went into the plant a few weeks after training. (16:06-20:11)... Before she started training, she had to buy a pair of overalls. She had never worn pants before and felt very self-conscious about the way the overalls fit her figure. She also was required to wear her hear up in a bandana. Hoffman retrieves a photograph of herself that illustrates her work attire. She digresses regarding her home, which is shown in the background of the photograph, and describes its features. (20:11-20:58)... Hoffman had to purchase a toolbox and several small hand tools before she went to work in the plant. Specialized tools and equipment was available at the plant's tool cribs. (20:58-25:24)... She felt "like a fish out of water" her first day in the plant. She remembers accidentally going into the men's restroom. "I was scared to death and the men would look at you, but they wouldn't help you a bit," she says. However, once women learned their jobs, the men were a little more helpful. The majority of men in the plant were older and the younger men in the plant were waiting to be drafted. Although the training program was supposed to last six weeks, she was sent to the plant after only two weeks. She was paid .60 cents an hour. On Fridays, trainees attended a lecture and took a written examination. Hoffman recalls that there were Blacks and Mexicans at the training school. (25:24-28:37)... Hoffman discusses how she felt her first day in the plant. She was unprepared for the work that was expected of her and she learned how to perform many skills through observation. When she arrived at the plant, she reported to the main office and was assigned to the fitting crew in Building 12 to work on the wing section of the B-17. She describes her job responsibilities working on this production line. In 1942, there were twelve people on each side of this production section. By the end of the war, production had become so efficient that the crew was decreased to five people on each side. End of tape. *** File: rrrmhoffman6.mp3 (0:00-3:01)... Hoffman was assigned to Building 12 with a group of women. Once they arrived in the building, they were introduced to their leadman and placed in different sections of production. They were moved around to different sections based on their skill level. When Hoffman was assigned to her section, the leadman showed her how to do the work and then evaluated her performance. It took her several weeks before she felt comfortable with her job responsibilities. (3:01-6:21)... She describes Building 12 of the plant. The building was illuminated by florescent lights, which made everyone look yellowish-green with purple lips. The plant was extremely noisy and it was difficult to talk to people during work hours. The plant was hot or cold depending on the weather outside. During the summer, the building doors were opened so that a breeze could filter through the plant. (6:21-7:35)... Hoffman recalls that the men "didn't want us" when women came into the plant. She got the feeling that the men thought women were there to take their jobs. She remembers a man on her crew who refused to help her when she asked for his assistance. (7:35-8:56)... Hoffman again describes the work attire she wore while employed at Douglas. (8:56-11:36)... She did not report to her department until the afternoon of her first day. She does not believe she completed very much production work until the following day. She was initially assigned to the fitting crew, but she completed various tasks while in this section. The majority of people on her crew were women, which included a Black woman who worked as a maid before she was hired at Douglas. Hoffman worked in various stations alongside Black women. (11:36-13:58)... Her supervisors were supportive. Employees were evaluated every three months at which time they were eligible for a pay raise based on the grade they received in that evaluation. Hoffman recalls confronting her supervisor when a young, woman employed in the same line work got a higher raise. Hoffman received either a .05 or .10 cent raise every three months for the three years she worked at Douglas. When she was laid off at the end of the war she was earning $1.25 an hour, which was more than her husband's pay in the shipyards. Layoffs at Douglas began almost immediately after VE-Day was declared. (13:58-15:13)... The women in the plant "were glad to have a few more women come in" during the war. Hoffman felt confused after her first day in the plant because "there was so much to take in all at once and you didn't know if you wanted to go back again." She was tired and her muscles were sore after her first week at the plant. (15:13-15:50)... Hoffman talks about her work breaks. (15:50-17:02)... Hoffman worked the day shift at Douglas six days a week, eight hours a day. Her commute from Santa Ana to Long Beach was an hour each way, which meant that she was away from home for ten hours a day. (17:02-18:49)... It took several weeks for Hoffman to get adjusted to the plant and feel comfortable with her skills. She digresses regarding reports of Japanese attacks along the Long Beach coastline. When these warnings came in, employees were ushered out of the plant and ordered into small bomb shelters. (18:49-22:57)... Hoffman describes how the framework for the wings was produced, stating that her bust size increased from thirty-two to thirty-eight from lifting the jig that held the frames. There were production quotas set in the department and the pace of production got faster and faster as the war progressed. By VE-Day, it took only half a day to complete the framework. (22:57-24:39)... Hoffman was only acquainted with her crew because she did not have time to socialize with other people in the plant. Most of the women in her crew were younger; however, Hoffman was not the oldest woman on her crew. She felt self-conscious about her age and initially felt that her age would preclude her from getting a job at Douglas. Over time, many of the young women on her crew left to go into the service. (24:39-27:05)... Although Hoffman heard about sexual harassment and/or flirting among employees, she did not know any women who had these experiences. There were always rumors floating around the plant about women who worked on the swing and graveyard shifts. Hoffman once again talks about the time her co-worker got a raise, indicating that the woman's age and beauty probably had something to do with it. She notes that se learned to hold her own and stand up for herself. Working at Douglas changed her attitudes towards traditional gender roles and helped her to become an independent woman. (27:05-29:07)... Hoffman discusses the presence of minorities and migrants at Douglas during the war. (29:07-29:28)... She talks about safety features at Douglas. In addition to wearing her hair tied back, employees in her department had to wear hard hats. End of tape. *** File: rrrmhoffman7.mp3 (0:07-3:04)... Hoffman discusses safety features at Douglas. The only time she saw safety signs was when she returned to Douglas after the war and began working with large machinery. She discusses the scaffolding and safety boards that were constructed to work on the wing section. During the war, she mainly worked on the second level of the scaffolding and remembers that it was an uncomfortable distance from the ground. (3:04-6:34)... Hoffman incurred most of her workplace injuries when she returned to Douglas after the war. During the war, however, drill sparks blistered her arms because she often wore her sleeves rolled up. She occasionally went to the plant dispensary for minor medical treatment. The only injury that she recalls happening in her department occurred when a woman was hit in the head by the production line as it changed positions. In order to avoid eye injuries, employees in her department were required to wear safety glasses. (6:34-10:50)... The plant was equipped with a cafeteria; however, Hoffman never had enough time to eat there during her lunch breaks. There was a company store in the plant where employees could purchase items at a discounted price. The company also provided a bill-paying service so that employees could pay their utility bills. Other than participating in blood drives, Hoffman was not involved in any recreation activities sponsored by Douglas. She was not aware of company counselors. A company newspaper was published every week. Her recollection was vague about the articles in the newspaper. However, she remembers the cartoons in the newspaper, indicating that they were eventually published and the books were sold in the company store. (10:50-12:12)... She believes that the minorities employed at Douglas were scattered throughout the plant. She worked along side both Black and Mexican women at one time or another. Her co-workers did not have any problems working with minorities. (12:12-13:06)... Like minorities, women were scattered throughout the plant and placed wherever they were needed. Women were constantly changing jobs and moving into new sections by choice or because they were transferred by supervisors. Hoffman worked in the same department for the duration of the war, so it was difficult for her to comment on the exact placement of women in the plant. (13:06-18:32)... She had very little knowledge of or interest in the union when she began working at Douglas. Her husband was initially anti-union, but had to join in order to work in the shipyards. She does not recall there being any union activity at Douglas for the first couple of years she worked there. Eventually, union elections were held and employees were given the option of joining the AFL or the CIO. When she returned to Douglas in the 1950s, she became more active and began attending union meetings. She was involved in the 1952 strike and recalls that "it [got us a lot of good deals for the women that we didn't have before." (18:32-21:07)... Hoffman was a member of a carpool with five co-workers. She paid $1.50 a week to belong to this carpool. When the driver quit Douglas, she had to ride a bus that also was operated by a Douglas employee. She paid a weekly fee for this bus service. (21:07-25:44)... During the war, two of Hoffman's daughters and their children lived with her. They managed the household while she was at work. On Friday nights, Hoffman and her daughters went grocery shopping at Truman's Grocery Store in Santa Ana. They had a good relationship with the grocer and his butcher. Occasionally, the grocer supplied them with special items. Hoffman and her family did not have any problems during the war as a result of food rations. They had very few gas rations because both she and her husband carpooled to work. She talks about their automobiles. (25:44-26:57)... Hoffman spent her only day off catching up on household chores. She baby sat her grandchildren in the evenings when her daughters went out. Occasionally, Hoffman and her husband would have company; however, they did not have much of a social life during the war. (26:57-28:36)... All three of Hoffman's sons-in-law were in different branches of the armed forces. She remembers searching her daughters' faces when she got home from work as a way of determining whether or not they received an ominous telegram about their husbands. (28:36-29:46)... Hoffman often saw the finished product of her work. During the war she worked on the B-17 and remembers hearing stories about when the thousandth plane was completed. When she worked at Douglas in the 1950s, she watched planes take off, thrilled to know that she helped make them. (29:46-30:50)... During the war, Hoffman recalls that businessmen and Douglas executives toured the plant and observed production procedures. End of tape. *** File: rrrmhoffman8.mp3 (0:07-1:46)... Douglas organized dances for employees; however, she never attended these events. Entertainers often performed outside the plant in an attempt to lift the morale of Douglas employees. Hoffman also purchased war bonds, the money for which was deducted from her check each week. When she cashed in her war bonds after the war, she used the money as a down payment towards the purchase of a home. (1:46-4:00)... After she moved to California, Hoffman did not go back to Illinois to visit relatives until the 1950s. Her father died in 1927 and her mother in 1943. She talks about her siblings. Hoffman and her husband were busy during the war and were not able to spend as much time with his family in Pomona as they did when they first moved to California. (4:00-5:48)... Hoffman's youngest daughter was married in a wedding chapel in Santa Ana during the war. After the wedding, she quit her job and moved to Arizona and then to South Carolina where her husband was being trained as a pilot in the air force. When he went overseas, she returned to California and gave birth to her first child soon after. (5:48-6:45)... Hoffman befriended the women on her crew; however, they did not socialize outside of work because "we were tried and ready to go to bed after work." Her closest friend at Douglas was a Mexican woman on her crew. They corresponded for awhile after they were laid off from Douglas. (6:45-8:14)... She hoped to take a vacation if and when she was laid off after the war. Her husband left his job shortly after the war ended. After she was laid off from Douglas, they took a seven-week vacation back East to visit relatives. She talks about their travels and how they had to retread their tires because of poor road conditions. When they returned to California, "we were ready to go work again." (8:14-13:00)... Hoffman describes how postwar layoffs were organized at Douglas. Every day she went to work she wondered if "this would be the day I'll get it." Production on the B-17 ceased when VE-Day was declared and employees did not have anything to do. However, they were expected to look busy whenever supervisors came around. Hoffman was transferred to Building 13 where she was trained to read blueprints and inspect parts by an older, male inspector. When she was laid off, she received a good rating and told that she would be called back if they needed her. While she was on vacation, she received a telegram asking her to come back to Douglas as a riveter, but the position was filled by the time she got home. At that time she went to work sewing blouses in a Santa Ana garment shop. (13:00-14:04)... Hoffman and her husband had a joint banking account and shared household expenses. (14:04-15:19)... She was somewhat relieved when she was laid off from Douglas. She enjoyed sleeping in and thought things were good for awhile until she started to get restless. Both her daughters moved out of her house after the war because their husbands came home from the service and they established their own households. End of tape.
- SUBJECT BIO - Marguerite Hoffman had been working as a drape maker for J.C. Penney's before going to work at Douglas Aircraft, Long Beach. Hoffman, the last of three children, was born and raised in Illinois. She attended Normal University for one year, until marrying in 1917. She remained a homemaker until she moved to Los Angeles with her husband and three daughters then years later. Until she began her job at Douglas, she worked outside of the home intermittently or part time, as a drapery maker. She worked as a blouse maker for one year after the war, then was a full-time homemaker until returning to Douglas in 1951. She continued working there until her retirement in 1976. Although Hoffman was skeptical about the importance of her experience, she remained a willing participant throughout the interview process. Because of her busy schedule, the three interviews were strung out over a six week period. The interviews were conducted in the living room of her mobile home in Pomona, where she moved after her husband's death in 1961. Although a private person, Hoffman shared her experiences freely. TOPICS - drapery work; managing household; children; hiring process at Douglas Aircraft; physical examination; training school; gender relations; men's attitudes towards women in the plant; wages; work attire; housing; tooljob responsibilities; plant description; working conditions; gender relations and flirting; work clothing; job evaluations and raises; wages; hours and breaks; labor demographics; minorities and migrants; postwar lworking conditions; safety features; workplace injuries; plant dispensary; company services; minorities; union activities; transportation; daughters; managing household during the war; food rations; social life; sentertainment and plant activities; family life; family history; friends and social life; and postwar layoffs;
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