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Nakagawa, Dave (audio interview #2 of 2)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This second, more comprehensive interview with Dave Nakagawa was conducted some twenty six years after the initial very short and technically flawed interview done by an Asian American Studies class. Nakagawa was a very gracious host, and his memory remained sharp and clear. TOPICS - family background and history; housing arrangements; relationship with canneries; fishing practices;childhood activities; judo classes; community composition and geography; Japanese baths; diet; and his mother's work at cannery;Japanese celebrations; reputation of Terminal Islanders among other Japanese; Little Tokyo; athletic ability; weight lifting; high school athletics;activities and experiences at San Pedro High School; rumor of his being a spy; dating; FBI round-up of fishermen; evacuation and internment;beginning of youth work; military service; return to Los Angeles; youth work in Boys Club and YMCA;post-war youth work; marrieage; joining Presbyerian Church; Terminal Island's switch from Baptist to Presbyterian Church; father's resumption of fishing; reflections on life on Terminal Island; 11/8/2001
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- *** File: tidnakagawa3.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-0:55)... Tape introduction. (0:55-5:28)... When Nakagawa's father came to the United States, he worked on the railroads. After hearing about the construction of Terminal Island, he came to the location and was one of the pioneers in the island's development. He purchased or leased the boat La Belle from a local cannery and hired a small crew of fisherman from Wakayama Prefecture. Initially, they fished for sardines and then graduated first to mackerel and then tuna. In the mid-1930s, he decided to build a tuna boat, which was constructed in the State of Washington. When the boat was finished, he returned to Terminal Island to continue tuna fishing with a small crew. (5:28-7:40)... Each cannery built wooden houses for the fisherman to live in; his family lived near the San Pedro ferry at 113D Cannery Street. The fisherman were required to sell to whichever cannery in whose houses they lived. If they wanted to sell to other canneries, they moved to new housing. Nakagawa could not recall the full name of the cannery with which his father contracted; it started with "Southern California." (7:40-9:51)... Nakagawa was born in 1921 and by then his father had been in California for some time. His mother came directly from Wakayama to Terminal Island as a bride when she was approximately eighteen years old. His father spoke very good English, which was surprising because most Issei on the island did not speak English. He does not know where his father learned how to speak English. (9:51-12:10)... His father's crew on the La Belle consisted of approximately eleven men. In order to meet the citizenship requirement for captains of fishing vessels, his father asked an older Nisei to be the captain of the boat. It was quite an occasion when his father's tuna boat arrived in Terminal Island and many people greeted the boat at the wharf. The tuna boat housed a crew of approximately twelve to fourteen men. (12:10-17:33)... Nakagawa describes the methods of catching tuna with bamboo poles or purse seine nets. When poles were used a ramp was lowered from the tuna boat, on which men stood and caught the tuna as they came in to feed on bait. The use of purse seine nets typically occurred when the boat was close to the mainland and poles were used when they were in Mexico or deep ocean waters. There was a crewman who sat in the crews nest and scouted the location of tuna. The presence of tuna was usually detected when there was a group of birds feeding on small fish; underneath, there was usually a school of tuna. In addition, a large presence of tuna made the water appear a brownish/reddish color. Fisherman also located tuna when they sited a school of dolphins. (17:33-20:06)... Nakagawa learned tuna fishing during the summers when he was not in school. In high school, he often fished with the other fisherman using a bamboo pole, and was given a 1/4 share when he caught tuna. When his father purchased a tuna clipper, he began taking trips to Mexico in one or two month intervals. One of the crew members was a cook and did all of the food preparation for the crew. Nakagawa did go on these fishing trips to Mexico, but not very often. His brother was groomed to be the captain of the tuna boat and when he graduated from high school he went to work for their father on the tuna boat. (20:06-23:11)... The Fisherman's Association was a group of fisherman who discussed the problems in the fishing industry. He believes that his father was the president of this association for one year. The group banded together when prices were cut and negotiated with the canneries on these issues. Although he recalls very few details, he describes the Kenjin Kai as a Japanese organization in the community. (23:11-25:03)... When his father was arrested by the FBI, along with the other Terminal Island fishermen, the boats were "laid to rest," and the fisherman were no longer allowed to fish. He does not believe that his father received any money for his boat or equipment. (25:03-27:20)... His mother was the youngest of the daughters born to his grandparents. She was a young bride when she came to Terminal Island. Reverend Ito was the head of the Baptist mission on the island and Mrs. Ito brought all of the young brides to the church in an attempt to show them the ways of American living. In the process, his mother was converted to Christianity. Nakagawa's brother, Kiyoshi, was born in 1918 and was three years older than him. This places Nakagawa's father in the early group of Issei who settled on Terminal Island. (27:20-30:39)... The housing supplied by the cannery was a wooden bungalow with partitions to separate the space in the living area. They had a kitchen, a parlor, and three spaces. Each house had its own bath, which was square tub that sat on top of a hole where the firewood was placed to heat the bath. The water was typically boiled outside and brought in; he and his brother collected wood to heat the bath. In the traditional manner, his family used a small pale with a water scoop to clean themselves before bathing. end of tape *** File: tidnakagawa4.mp3 (0:00-3:15)... Nakagawa continues the discussion on the bath. The fire for the bath was kept burning all of the time. He finds it interesting that the neighborhood never had a fire with all of the wood piles and fires burning under the houses. When they finished bathing, the water was drained out of the tub into the plumbing. The family bathed after dinner and there was no particular order. The small children usually bathed with his mother. People did not wear Japanese clothing in the streets. (3:15-6:32)... They ate a variety of foods, such as tempura, sukiyaki, vegetables, sushi, tuna, sardines, and mackerels. As a young boy, he would catch smelts using a bamboo pole. His mother would clean and salt the smelts and dry them out on a long pole. They also did this with mackerel and sardines, which they would then roast on an open fire or grill outside the house. (6:32-9:45)... A map is referenced in this segment and Nakagawa discusses the location of the housing and the canneries. The Japanese community known as Hokkaido was part of the cannery housing, but was referred to as Hokkaido because it housed many Japanese from that prefecture. All of the families on Terminal Island were Japanese with the exception of two Russian families. Any non-Japanese lived in San Pedro, not Terminal Island. (9:45-12:50)... Nakagawa's mother worked in a cannery until she started having children, at which time she became a homemaker. Each cannery had a different whistle. The wives knew by the sound of the whistle when their husbands were docking and would take their knives and go directly to the cannery. He had two brothers and two sisters (Kiyoshi, Akiko, Kei and Kimi). When Nakagawa's father fished locally, he came home every day. Nakagawa's mother was a strict disciplinarian. In terms of household chores, Nakagawa and his older brother were in charge of gathering firewood. Once or twice a year they had a general housecleaning and he had to scrub the wood floors. (12:50-16:31)... He describes his childhood as idyllic, filled with fishing on the wharf, swimming in the harbor, and playing pirate games on Deadman's Island. He recalls catching Dungeness crab off the rock jetties. The water in the harbor was crystal clear with no pollution. His father used cork to make a life preserver for the small children. When he was about seven or eight years old, he learned how to swim without the cork. (16:31-23:29)... He was very active as a young boy and involved in all of the sports activities in the community. He wanted to learn both kendo and judo, but his parents made him choose one. He practiced judo once a week and obtained his black belt when he was sixteen or seventeen years old. His master was Yamada Sensei (teacher) and the judo facility was built by the fathers in the community. It was located directly behind the tori gate, near the Fisherman's Hall. His training in judo came in very handy later in his job as a youth worker and physical education director for the boy's club. He describes his experiences working in this capacity and a physical confrontation he had with an African American youth when he was refereeing a sporting event at the Boys Club. Eventually, Nakagawa was promoted from the physical education director to executive director of the Boys Club. He kept up with his martial arts training by teaching a judo class at the Boys Club. (23:29-29:03)... The girls in the community were mainly involved in church activities with the Baptist Church. Mrs. Swanson was the missionary leader for the boys and the girls. When the boys were too much for her to handle, she asked her brother, Buddy Swanson, to work with the boys. The boys were amazed by Swanson because he was a big man. The first activity he taught them was how to walk on their hands. The boys were a spectacle around Terminal Island because they walked on their hands on the sidewalk. Swanson also took the boys on field trips outside Terminal Island. One trip was to a slaughter house and Nakagawa describes his experiences there. He did not experience any racism during these outings. People were curious about the boys and were friendly to them. end of tape *** File: tidnakagawa5.mp3 (0:00-3:58)... He was expected to attend Sunday school every week. There were also Buddhists on Terminal Island, but they had a separate school from the Christians. He also had to attend a Japanese school to learn the native language and heritage, which he attended every day for approximately two hours. He went to the Japanese school until high school and was happy that he did not have to go any longer. He did not see the need to learn Japanese because he was already Japanese. His family spoke both Japanese and English in the home. Among peers they typically spoke English, but Japanese was spoken in all other situations. His mother did not learn how to speak English. She made sure they finished their homework and was always trying to make her children better. The Buddhist and Christians on Terminal Island mixed well and there was no animosity between them. (3:58-8:12)... During Girls Day, girls wore kimonos and danced to Japanese music. It was a big event for the girls and all of the island people came out and watched the festivities. Boys Day was an athletic festival, in which boys ran relays and participated in other sporting events. The new year was a special holiday and a key celebration on Terminal Island, as it was in Japan. He looked forward to the new year celebration because all of the families would visit each house and give money to the children. His mother also made a lot of sweets for the occasion. Mochi Tsuki (Note: the literal meaning is rice pounding) was another festivity, in which the men pounded rice and the women made mochi cakes. Each family took their share and then visited each other's homes and enjoyed the food and drink together. There were Japanese movies shown at Fisherman's Hall approximately six times per year. This was a highlight for Terminal Islanders and many people flocked to the hall to see movies that were usually either about samurai or were love stories. (8:12-10:02)... The highlight of grade school was when they went on field trips off of the island. Mrs. Wallace made it possible for the students to be bused off of the island to visit other areas. They also had outdoor and story telling activities. All of the teachers were "Caucasians." During the field trips, the children were looked upon by others as curiosities. (10:02-14:23)... The only time they went to Little Tokyo was when they had "Nisei Week." He looked forward to going there to see how other people lived and to make friends and meet other girls. The bad reputation that the fishermen had in Little Tokyo was a result of their carousing and drinking there. They also used crude language and this was not respected by those living in the area. His first inkling that Terminal Islanders were in bad repute in Little Tokyo occurred when he started dating girls in Los Angeles and learned that parents were not happy that their daughters were dating someone from Terminal Island. Little Tokyo was the center of gambling activities for Terminal Islanders. The pool halls on Terminal Island also were frequented by the fishermen or older Japanese on the island, not the youths. When he met girls in Los Angeles, it was through the church gatherings. In general, boys did not want to date girls on Terminal Island, probably because they knew them too well. (14:23-21:09)... As a young boy he was interested in the comic book Herald V, which depicted a man who exercised and weigh lifted until his physique was in the shape of a "V."Nakagawa aspired to look like this and ordered a 200 pound bar bell. When the bar bell arrived, his mother set him up in a separate room and he began lifting weights. After a short time, the boys in the neighborhood heard about his weight lifting and decided to join him. His room became somewhat of a gymnasium. His mother was supportive of his physical activities because she knew that he was not scholastically inclined like his older brother. (21:09-26:24)... Reverend (Minosuke) Ito spoke to Nakagawa about his plans for the future and planted the seed that he should work with youths because so many of the younger boys admired him. Prior to this, Nakagawa believed that he would follow in his father's footsteps and become a fisherman. A Japanese seminarian from Canada, Jisuo Morikawa, also took an interest in Nakagawa's influence with the youths in the community. He purchased an aluminum barbell and asked Nakagawa and the other boys to train with him as a way of getting them involved with the church. From that point on, Nakagawa's involvement with the church moved from a purely social to a religious level. (26:24-28:52)... When he entered San Pedro High School, he joined the gymnastics team and was elected as the captain of the team shortly thereafter. His specialities were the high bars and tumbling. He also joined the football team and the coach assigned him to the position of fullback. He was the co-captain of the football team and was adept at blocking the opponents and running the ball. end of tape *** File: tidnakagawa6.mp3 (0:00-3:44)... Nakagawa continues discussing his experiences playing football for San Pedro High School. He was the only Japanese on the varsity football team. His years playing football were very satisfying. Approximately four years ago, the quarterback of the team, Terry Cross, passed away and Nakagawa was asked to speak at his funeral. Many of his former teammates also were present at the funeral and it was a memorable experience for him. He had not seen his teammates since he graduated from high school. (3:44-7:20)... The same year that the Japanese were evacuated from Terminal Island, a newsreel was played in the San Pedro theater showing a young officer pointing his finger at a plane, at which time someone yelled, "That's Yutaka." (his Japanese name). The next day a group of men went to the ferry landing area in Terminal Island and hung a figure resembling Nakagawa on the rafter with the word "traitor"on it. After he returned from the service and attended his class reunion, people told him about the rumor that he boarded a Japanese submarine while fishing on his father's boat. He was surprised that anyone believed he was involved with the Japanese because he was as "American as apple pie"and could barely speak Japanese. (7:20-11:45)... He did not experience any racism in junior or senior high school. He was president of the Japanese Club. The other Japanese students did not intermingle with the "Caucasian" students. He was asked by the teachers and the principal to speak to the Japanese students about mingling with the rest of the student body. Although he was reluctant to do so, he was coerced by school officials to address the Japanese student body. During an assembly, he encouraged the Japanese students to intermingle with the Anglo students. Although some of the Japanese students associated with the rest of the student body, most of them did not. (11:45-13:02)... His parents did not entertain the idea of sending their children back to Japan to get an education. When the Kibei returned to the United States, they had to adjust to their surroundings. Most of them spoke more Japanese than English. The Terminal Islanders understood their struggles in Japan and they did not have any problems getting along with each other. There were quite a few Kibei at San Pedro High School. (13:02-14:50)... He started dating when he was in high school, but only Japanese girls who lived in Los Angeles. Many of the Anglo girls in high school were interested in dating him. Although he was flattered, he was not interested in dating them at that time. In general, most of his dating activities revolved around church socials. He also took dates to movies and dances. (14:50-20:34)... After high school, he enrolled in Western Bible College. After two years there, WWII broke out. The college was in the process of becoming a four-year college and changing its name to Westmont College. This is when Terminal Island was being evacuated and his father was arrested. His family told him that the FBI came to their home in the evening and arrested his father, which was expected because many of the leaders in the community were being arrested. Shortly thereafter, all of the fisherman were evacuated from the island, leaving the women alone. He went home to see what was happening and while he was there he confronted a "Caucasian" official who knocked on the outside of the houses to scare the women. He a returned to school and when the 48-hour notice was given, his brother moved the family to Los Angeles to stay with some friends. (20:34-25:01)... During the Japanese evacuation, people at Western Bible College treated him well. He stayed away from the streets as much as possible because he knew that it was not safe. Friends in Los Angeles were able to find a place for his family to rent. Most of their belongings went into storage, but the rest stayed in Terminal Island, including his father's boat. His family was interned in Amache, Colorado, along with many Japanese families who were living in the Los Angeles area. His family was the only one there from Terminal Island; the others were sent to Manzanar. The camp in Colorado was smaller and it was a community atmosphere; it was surrounded by barbed wire and patrolled by military personnel with guns. Nakagawa's father was sent to several places, including New Mexico and Montana until he finally joined the family in Colorado. Nakagawa was at the camp in Colorado for three months and was released to continue his college education. end of tape *** File: tidnakagawa7.mp3 (0:00-1:13)... <Interview begins abruptly with Nakagawa discussing his feelings towards Japanese internment> Nakagawa's father was upset that he was interned even though he was loyal to America and spent his life working in the country. However, he had expected that he would be arrested because he was not a United States citizen. He was arrested shortly after the Japanese invasion of Pearl Harbor. Nakagawa was puzzled over the events occurring in the country. However, he views things in a philosophical light, indicating that it was just a part of life. (1:13-5:28)... He was offered a position as an Athletic Director for the YMCA in Dayton, Ohio. When he began working for the YMCA, the director introduced him to the boys as a Japanese American named Dave. When he took the stage, he told the boys that he was just like them, an American who could speak English, but with a Japanese face. He stopped using the name Yutaka when he started college. He chose the name Dave because it was short and easy to remember. (5:28-12:42)... While working for the YMCA he made several friends, one of whom asked him to spend Christmas with his family. The family belonged to the Brethren Church and Nakagawa was asked to address the Sunday school students. Many of the people in the community had never seen a Japanese person. The minister introduced Nakagawa and indicated that the community did not hold any animosity towards him because of the war, which made him feel welcomed. By this time, Nakagawa was accustomed to eating American food. His friend's mother made a fried chicken dinner with all of the trimmings and the family was amazed at all of the fried chicken Nakagawa consumed. (12:42-18:26)... He was drafted into the military while living in Dayton, Ohio. He reported to Columbus, Ohio, where he was asked to complete a resume of his abilities. He indicated that he worked for the YMCA and had a black belt in judo. They assigned him to Fort Bragg, North Carolina to be a combat judo instructor. He went through basic training at Fort Bragg and then trained the 82nd airborne paratroopers in combat judo. He was the only Japanese in an all white company. There were other Japanese at Fort Bragg, but they were segregated. He did not experience any problems with racism in the military or in the community of Fort Bragg while he was training there. His instruction in combat judo mainly involved training soldiers in stealth movements and teaching them techniques that would knock people out. It was very boring to him and he wanted to go overseas where people were fighting. However, the war was nearing an end and when he was sent to Germany, he was assigned to supervise workers in a clothing factory. This was not an exciting experience and he left Germany after a short time and returned to the United States. (18:26-22:36)... When he returned to Los Angeles, he joined the Baptist Church and became the Director of Christian Education. As Japanese returned to the area after internment, Japanese youths began congregating in the Little Tokyo area with nothing to do and were getting into trouble. The YMCA asked Nakagawa to be the Youth Project Director and he began working in Little Tokyo. The meeting place for the youth was in the basement of the Los Angeles Union Church, which was an all-Black church. His headquarters were at the YMCA on Hope Street, near the Los Angeles Public Library. He recruited youths from the Protestant churches in the area and organized them into Y clubs in the Baptist church. He worked for the YMCA in Little Tokyo for four years. (22:36-30:45)... Tommy Thompson asked Nakagawa to be the Youth Director for the YMCA in Pasadena, where there were problems between Black and White youths. Nakagawa decided to accept this post because he thought it would be a challenge. However, he was not prepared for the reception he received from Black youths. He attempted to use his usual techniques of discipline, which resulted in his vehicle being vandalized on several occasions. When he decided to leave this position, he was approached by four Black boys who told him that they were just testing him and they did not want him to leave. He did not experience any disciplinary problems with the boys from that day forward, and his vehicle was no longer vandalized. Nakagawa later worked as the director for the Pasadena Boys Club and was also a member of the Pasadena City Club. He was asked to be the chairman of Youth Appreciation Night, at which Robert Fisher, a Black football star who was also an active volunteer in the community was going to be honored. When Nakagawa met Fisher, he was reminded that Fisher was one of the boys who visited him and pleaded that he stay at the Villa Street Boys Club. This was a significant event in Nakagawa's life because he realized the influence he had on youths. Nakagawa digresses and talks about the religious affiliations of Terminal Islanders although the tape ends before the discussion is addressed at any length. end of tape *** File: tidnakagawa8.mp3 (0:00-0:58)... The interview begins abruptly with a question about the relationship between Terminal Islanders and Presbyterianism. Nakagawa explains that after internment, many of the Japanese from Terminal Island settled in the Long Beach area. The Presbyterian church was the only church available to the Terminal Islanders and this is how they switched from being Baptists to Presbyterians. (0:58-2:05)... The pastor of the Presbyterian church in Altadena asked Nakagawa to work in the community as a Presbyterian. He studied the religion and decided to switch because it was more liberal than the Baptist church. (2:05-4:07)... He met his wife at the Baptist church when he returned to Los Angles from Ohio. He learned that she was a nurse. He was interested in her, and they started dating and married some time in the 1950s. She was raised in the El Monte area, where her father was a farmer. Her family moved to Oxnard and farmed there as well. (4:07-8:20)... Terminal Islanders have a special bond with one another because of the close knit nature of the community. Even though the island was crowded, people were willing to help one another and there was no competition or animosity. His memories of his childhood are pleasant; he spent his time socializing and participating in physical activities. These experiences are common among Terminal Islanders and has created a feeling of unity within the group. This way of life differed from the farmers in the Palos Verdes area and the people in Los Angeles. Terminal Islanders were different because their lives revolved around fishing, whereas people in Los Angeles had various occupations. (8:20-12:21)... After internment, his father purchased another tuna boat. It was difficult to find fisherman so he went to Ensenada, Mexico and recruited some Japanese fisherman there who had married Mexican women. When they returned from their fishing trips, they would dock in the harbor and the fishermen would sleep on the boat. The engine of the boat failed and his father decided to retire from fishing. He fished for approximately one year after the war ended. (12:21-14:23)... He appreciates the opportunity to relive his experiences on Terminal Island. He ends by talking about the monument for which Terminal Islanders raised that is to stand as a memorial to the people who once enjoyed living on the isolated island. end of tape
- SUBJECT BIO - Dave Nakagawa spent his youth on Terminal Island until he left for college. His father was the first fisherman to have a tuna clipper built, and let his teen-aged son work on the boat during the summer months. As a result, he gained a knowledge of the fishing practices of the Issei fishermen. Nakagawa was greatly influenced by the Baptist missionaries who ran a church school for the Japanese children, where Japanese language was also taught. He was a star athlete when he attended San Pedro High School. In 1941, when his father was picked up by the FBI, along with all the other Issei fisherman, he was already attending college in Los Angeles. He was in camp with his family for only a short time and left to go to college in the Midwest. After the war, he became a youth worker in Pasadena, and continued in this work until his retirement. The first, very short interview with Nakagawa, conducted by Franklin Odo and his students includes few details about his background and life on Terminal Island. A second, more comprehensive interview was conducted some twenty six years after the initial 1970s one, following a meeting with Nakagawa to look at his Terminal Island photographs. INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This second, more comprehensive interview with Dave Nakagawa was conducted some twenty six years after the initial very short and technically flawed interview done by an Asian American Studies class. Nakagawa was a very gracious host, and his memory remained sharp and clear. TOPICS - family background and history; housing arrangements; relationship with canneries; fishing practices;childhood activities; judo classes; community composition and geography; Japanese baths; diet; and his mother's work at cannery;Japanese celebrations; reputation of Terminal Islanders among other Japanese; Little Tokyo; athletic ability; weight lifting; high school athletics;activities and experiences at San Pedro High School; rumor of his being a spy; dating; FBI round-up of fishermen; evacuation and internment;beginning of youth work; military service; return to Los Angeles; youth work in Boys Club and YMCA;post-war youth work; marrieage; joining Presbyerian Church; Terminal Island's switch from Baptist to Presbyterian Church; father's resumption of fishing; reflections on life on Terminal Island;
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