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Perry, Harriet (audio interview #1 of 1)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - One long interview was conducted with Harriet Perry, sitting at the kitchen table in the home to which she first moved in 1941. She was pleased to be interviewed and was warm, friendly and quick to laugh. She was eager to introduce me to her neighbor, who stopped over, and to her husband who left us to record the interview in privacy. Perry was candid and open. Perhaps because we developed an almost instant rapport and a liking for each other, she was not at all reluctant to discuss the more painful experiences in her life. 3/31/1981
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- SUBJECT BIO - Harriet Perry went to work at Lockheed in 1942 without much enthusiasm. The sixth of nine children, Perry was born in Spokane County Washington and moved to California with her family when she was fourteen. After graduating from Pasadena High School, she joined the work force, waitressing and doing seasonal work in a fig packing company. She married in 1928, and had a son the following year. She remained home for four years, but started to do clerical work in a department store, even before she divorced her first husband in 1934. She continued working part-time after her second marriage in 1937, but after she and her husband bough their home in Burbank in 1941, she assumed that she would become a full-time homemaker. When her husband enlisted in the service - initially, without her consent - she had to go to work in order to keep up the payments on their home. Although Perry ultimately enjoyed the wartime work experience and was proud of her work, she felt abandoned and angry with her husband for enlisting. She was eager to return home and resume full-time homemaking when her husband was discharged. In the 1950s, she periodically worked at JC Penney's during the Christmas rush, and over the years worked alongside her husband in various ventures they undertook, including a charter boat business. TOPICS - family background; parents; siblings; farm life; childhood; household chores; family life; schooling; socioeconomic status; tuberculosis; living conditions in Redding and Pasadena; high school; career expectationreligion and church activities; father's death; job history and wages; dating; first marriage; marital relationship; birth control; pregnancy; work at Nash's Department Store; first husband's embezzlement and subseson; work at Nash's Department Store; purchasing first home in Burbank; neighbors; friends; husband; marital relationship; social life; domesticity; attack on Pearl Harbor; husband's enlistment in the Navy; applicaworkforce demographics; son; transportation and gas rations; neighborhood networks and relationships; managing home and finances; job responsibilities; health and physical effects of defense work; leave of absence;postwar life; boating and fishing activities; domesticity; household responsibilities; work at JC Penneys; gender ideology; camping; husband's health; son's career and family life; reflections on life; grandchi
- *** File: rrrhperry1.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:04-2:21)... Perry knew nothing about her father's family history. Her maternal grandmother immigrated to the east coast from England when she was seven years old. She married when she was seventeen and gave birth to ten or twelve children, many of whom died during a typhoid epidemic. Perry's mother was the only surviving girl in the family along with five brothers. The family moved to Spokane, Washington when she was seventeen. She received a high-school education and taught in a one-room country school before she married at the age of eighteen. Perry's father worked as a carpenter. (2:21-5:36)... A short time after they married, her parents purchased a seventy-acre farm east of Spokane. Her father worked during the week as a carpenter and tended the farm on the weekends. Her mother sold butter and vegetables and her father sold wood that he cut from the trees on their land. Except for food staples, they were self-sufficient farmers. When her father cut back his carpentry work to dedicate more time to the farm, they fell into debt. Their economic difficulties coincided with a tuberculosis infection in their family which resulted in the deaths of two children. Her father leased their farm and neighbors organized a benefit to help raise money for them to move to a warmer climate to combat the tuberculosis. Her father used the money to purchase a Model T Ford, which they packed up and set off for California in 1921, shortly after Perry's fourteenth birthday. (5:36-7:03)... Perry has fond memories of her childhood on the farm. Even though her parents did not have a lot of money, they provided for the children. Her mother made all of their clothes and re-decorated the girls' outfits every time they were passed down from one to another. Perry went to a one-room schoolhouse in the country. When one of her older sisters was ready for high school, they transferred to a graded school that also included a high school and Perry went there until the seventh grade. (7:03-8:13)... Perry's household chores included baby-sitting her younger siblings, carrying water in and out of the house, and doing the dishes. She hated washing dishes and tried to get out of this chore by picking a fight with her siblings and then running out of the room. Their farmhouse was small and included a kitchen, a living room, and three bedrooms. Perry shared a bedroom and a double bed with her older sister. (8:13-9:35)... There were no children who lived near Perry; a couple of her girlfriends lived at Newman Lake, which was approximately five miles from where her family lived. Her main playmates were two brothers, one who was three years older and another who was three years younger than Perry. She played with her dolls alone because her brothers would not play dolls with her. (9:35-10:13)... She dressed like the other girls in the community, with long underwear and black stockings in the winter. In the summer Perry ran around the farm barefoot. (10:13-11:22)... Her family's farmhouse was not equipped with electricity or running water. They obtained their water from a spring that was located on a hill about fifty feet from the farm. When she was eight years old, they got a telephone. They also had a gas lamp for a short time until her father threw it outside in the snow after it caught fire when he lit it one evening. (11:22-13:55)... Perry did not read a lot when she was a child. Her father was a quiet, self-educated man who was an avid reader. He subscribed to the newspaper and farm journals. One of their family activities was playing dominoes. She was closer to her mother than her father and recalls watching her mother cook and bake. She was never forced to help her mother cook their meals, except when it was time to can cherries and tomatoes. (13:55-18:41)... Perry did not start the eighth grade because she began to show signs of tuberculosis. Two weeks after leaving Washington, her parents stopped in Redding, California seeking medical attention for her three-year-old brother. He was diagnosed with tuberculosis and required surgery to remove the abscesses on his scalp. Perry's father got a job as a carpenter and they moved into a campground until he found a house for them to rent. Their neighbors thought they were gypsies and reported her parents to the truant officer. Perry began the eighth grade in Redding in the fall. She was annoyed by the fact that she had to take certain requirements over because the California school system would not accept some of the courses she completed in Washington. (18:41-22:32)... In the spring of 1922, Perry's older sister moved to Redding, Washington and helped support the family on the money she saved working as a school teacher. Their father was having trouble getting enough work, and when friends advised him that there were job opportunities in Pasadena, he packed the rest of the family into the Model T Ford and headed there. When they arrived, they set up camp at Brookside Park where they lived for two weeks. They had difficulty finding a home because no one wanted to rent to a family with six children. Her parents purchased a lot in an abandoned orange grove and her father built a two-car garage which housed her parents, two younger siblings, and their kitchen facilities. Perry and her brothers lived in two tents outside the garage until 1925. (22:32-25:34)... Perry started the ninth grade at Pasadena High School and recalls feeling very scared the first day of school. Students were required to wear a uniform and she stood out the first couple of days because she did not have one. She was introduced to a senior who showed her around campus and she made friends almost immediately; she has maintained with two of them over the years. She was not allowed to play sports or take regular gym courses because of her history of tuberculosis. Even though she was not involved in any extracurricular activities after school, she enjoyed going to football games with her girlfriends. (25:34-26:45)... In high school, she began taking courses in preparation for a career in nursing. However, her father died of pneumonia in January 1926 shortly before she graduated from high school and this changed her plans. Her twenty-one-year-old brother came home to help support the family and her mother took in sewing and laundry assignments so that she could pay the mortgage on their home, which was completed in 1925. End of tape. *** File: rrrhperry2.mp3 (0:02-2:30)... After her father died in 1926, her brother assured her that she was going to finish high school. The women at their church raised money for Perry's mother to buy the material to make Perry's graduation clothing. Her father had been dedicated to the Congregational Church and built and founded the Congregational Church in Neuman Lake, Washington. After they settled in Pasadena, they resumed their church activities. Perry participated in church youth groups, taught Sunday school, and sang in the choir. (2:30-4:43)... Perry describes her dating life as a joke. Her brother John escorted her to parties and he was her "date." She recalls that playing "spin the bottle" with her friends was an acceptable and innocent game among teenagers at that time. Any socialization with the opposite sex was done in a group setting. The first time she went out on a date alone was just before or right after she graduated from high school. She and her first date took a streetcar into town to see a movie. She continued to see this boy for some time, but eventually "ditched" him when she got bored with his company. (4:43-9:26)... Perry gave up her plans to pursue a nursing career when her father died, knowing that she would have to find a job to help support her family. After she graduated, she went to work as a waitress. She was then hired by a man who sold Christmas baskets filled with candied figs, working full-time for .35 cents/hour. During the Christmas season, she worked a lot of overtime, bringing home as much as $30 to $40/week. She gave a certain amount of her wages to her mother each week. Perry's only plans for the future at this time were to get married. She married in 1928, describing her first marriage as a flop. (9:26-10:19)... Perry disliked waitressing because she was constantly having to rush and please people. She was insecure during this period in her life and felt pressure when she worked as a waitress. She earned about the same wages, including tips, as she made at the fig company. (10:19-12:50)... Perry met her husband while driving home from a church function. He became acquainted with her older brother and she began dating him. They married in 1928 when she was twenty and he was nineteen, and she had her first child nine months and two days later. She recalls feeling very angry when she found out she was pregnant. She had tried not to get pregnant by using a homemade suppository as a form of birth control. She describes her husband as a dishonest person who gambled most of his paycheck away each week (12:50-19:25)... Perry quit working after she married. Things seemed stable for the first three years of her marriage, and only learned later that he was remiss in paying many of their debts. She decided to leave her husband after he embezzled $500 from his employer and was sentenced to serve one year in the county jail. Perry and her son moved in with her mother and Perry got a job at Nash's Department Store in Pasadena. While he was in jail, her husband pretended that he found God and she took him back after he was released. They lived with her mother for four months, during which time he could not find work because of the Depression. She continued to work at the department store earning $65/month. She rented a home for $20/month where they lived for six months. She kicked her husband out and filed for divorce when she found out that he was having an affair with their neighbor's wife. Perry and her son moved back in with her mother and she put a period at the end of this unhappy time in her life. (19:25-24:33)... Perry married her second husband, Frank Perry, in El Paso, Texas in 1937. He was employed as an electrician for the Pullman Company when they met. During the first six months of their marriage, he worked for Pullman and TNO Railroad in El Paso. They then decided to return to California because they were homesick. They rented a home in Highland Park and Perry returned to Nash's Department Store on a part-time basis. Frank got a job with Southern Pacific in August 1937, but was laid three months later. He went to work for WPA until his union, the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW) found him a job at the train depot in downtown Los Angeles. End of tape. *** File: rrrhperry3.mp3 (0:03-1:55)... Perry talks about her second husband's work history. After they returned to California from El Paso, Texas, she went back to work at Nash's Department Store on a part-time basis. Her son was in the fourth grade at this time and was able to take care of himself. Perry wanted to have another child, but she and her husband were unable to conceive for unknown reasons. (1:55-5:50)... Perry discusses her relationship with her second husband, Frank Perry. In contrast to her first marriage, she and her husband pooled their money and made financial and household decisions together. In 1941, they purchased a home in Burbank for $2,795, with a $260 down payment. Perry was initially hesitant to move all the way out to Burbank, but after looking at new developments in the Los Angeles area she decided that it was the best place to purchase a new home. By February, 1941 when they moved in, her husband was working again at Southern Pacific in Los Angeles. He carpooled to work with a co-worker and his best friend, both of whom also purchased homes in the new housing development in Burbank. She left her job at Nash's Department Store after they moved to Burbank. (5:50-7:35)... Perry describes her life in Highland Park when she was working part-time. She was not involved in any organizations outside the home, but she and her husband socialized with other couples, including former high school friends and her siblings. Her daily activities continued to revolve around home and hearth after she moved to Burbank. Her son was in fifth grade when they moved and he went to school in Burbank until he graduated from high school. (7:35-9:15)... All of Perry's neighbors in Burbank were in the same age range and everyone had children, which is why Perry liked the neighborhood. She was friendly with the women in her neighborhood and they often visited together and exchanged recipes or talked about any problems they had with their children. (9:15-10:38)... Perry was shocked and angry at the bombing of Pearl Harbor. She was home with her husband, addressing Christmas cards when they heard the news over the radio. Although people in her area talked negatively about the Japanese before the war, she never encountered any problems. (10:38-11:49)... In March 1942, her husband was sent to a hospital in San Francisco that was owned by Southern Pacific. He received treatment for a stomach ulcer and his appendix was removed. She left her thirteen-year-old son home alone for a week while she visited her husband in the hospital. Her son prepared his own meals and a neighbor looked out for him while she was gone. (11:49-16:00)... In June 1942, Perry's husband enlisted in the navy. She was very upset with him because she knew that he would have been exempt as a railroad worker. When she expressed concern about being able to pay the mortgage in his absence, he suggested she go to work. Initially, Perry refused to sign his commission papers, but changed her mind. She later learned that her release was not required because his commission was high enough to cover his responsibilities at home. Needing something to occupy her time while her husband was away, in October 1942, a couple of days after her husband left, Perry applied for a job at Lockheed. (16:00-18:56)... Perry lived only two miles from Lockheed and it was common knowledge that the company was interested in hiring women. When she went to the employment office, she found it crowded with people applying for jobs. She turned down a position on the swing shift because she wanted to be home with her son in the evenings, and was then hired to work the day shift. The same day she applied and was hired, she was taken on a tour of the plant. Her only memory of the tour was the noise, and she recalls going home in tears telling her mother: "I got the job and I hate it!" Perry felt rejected and abandoned by her husband because he had "gone away and left me to cope." She started working in the plant on October 15, 1942. (18:56-19:49)... Her first day on the job, Perry was sent to a training class and was shown how to operate a rivet gun and a drill motor. Before the end of the day, a leadman came into the training class in search of a riveter and the instructor let Perry go. She had never done any mechanical work before, but was familiar with typical household tools, such as a hammer, pliers, and a screwdriver. (19:49-21:34)... Perry prepared for her first day of work at Lockheed by purchasing a pair of coveralls and some handkerchiefs to wear over her head. She had worn slacks around the house, but never coveralls. One of her neighbors also worked at Lockheed and agreed to take her to work on her first day. When she got home after her first day she was wound up and excited, telling her mother, "I can't understand these people who get so tried when they are working because I'm all full of pep. I could keep house and work too!" (21:34-23:10)... Although she complained about the noise when she toured the plant the day she applied for work, once Perry started working in the plant the noise did not bother her because she was so absorbed with her work. She was injured when she was learning how to buck her own rivets. On her first day at the plant, she was sent to a training area located inside the plant. She worked at the Vega plant in Burbank. (23:10-23:46)... Approximately fifty percent of the work force in the plant were women. All of the lead people were men and she thinks that most, if not all, of the heavy work was completed by men while women did the lighter work. (23:46-26:01)... There were 12-24 people in the training class Perry attended before going to work in the plant. Among other things, instructors went over company rules and procedures with new workers. She was also told about the union, but decided not to join because she planned on working at Lockheed only for the duration of the war. Her starting wage was .80 or .90 cents/hour and was eligible for automatic pay raises, which were calculated on the basis of performance reviews conducted by her leadman. (26:01-28:33)... After her training instructor released Perry to a leadman, she was taken to rivet #4 bulkheads of B-17s. She was placed with an experienced woman and they worked on the bulkhead as a team, taking turns riveting and bucking. Perry describes the size of the bulkhead. Occasionally, she stood on a stool to perform her duties. There were eight employees under her leadman, two of whom were men who were responsible for the heavier work in the section. End of tape. *** File: rrrhperry4.mp3 (0:09-1:27)... Although most of the women in her department were the same age as Perry, there were also women in the plant who were in their twenties and fifties. She ate lunch with her partner either in the sitting room of the women's restroom or in their section. They received a ten-minute break in the morning and a thirty-minute lunch break. Given this work schedule, she did not have time to socialize with her co-workers. (1:27-3:16)... Perry's schedule worked out perfectly with her son's school schedule, arriving home at 3:30 p.m., shortly after him. During her first summer at Lockheed, she arranged for her son to see a tutor in the mornings to improve his reading and mathematics skills. The next summer, she got her son a job at a local gas station for .40 cents/hour. (3:16-4:03)... Perry did not drive to work because she did not have enough gas rations. Instead, she carpooled, first with a neighbor and then with people in the Lockheed carpool. She also took a bus to work, which gave her the opportunity to get to the plant earlier so that she could eat breakfast in the cafeteria. (4:03-5:35)... There was only one other woman in her neighborhood who worked in defense during the war. She became close with the women in her neighborhood during the war years, getting together with them for monthly socials where they sewed and worked on crafts. She believes that some of their projects were done for the Red Cross. (5:35-9:13)... Accustomed to her husband handling things, Perry had a hard time maintaining her vehicle during the war. She became acquainted with a gas station owner who took care of her maintenance needs. She rarely used her car, however, because she was only allotted four gallons of gas rations/week. Financially, she did well during the war, managing to pay off her second mortgage with her wages and her husband's Navy salary. She also saved at least $1,000, which she and her husband used to purchase a used car after the war. (9:13-14:11)... Perry describes the production sections where she worked during her three years at Lockheed. During this period, her mother died and Perry began to feel the strain of her workload and extreme worry about her husband's tour in the South Pacific. Her weight dropped down to 104 pounds and she began missing work. When she went to a physician, he described her symptoms as early signs of menopause. Although she didn't believe that this was the case since she was only thirty-six years old, the doctor signed her leave of absence on account of menopausal symptoms. She took a total of four weeks off to re-energize herself. When she returned to the plant, she was placed on bench work because the work was less strenuous. (14:11-15:38)... Perry was devastated when she got her first letter from her husband because sensors cut out sections. She thought, "the government's got my husband. He's not mine anymore." Her women co-workers talked about missing their loved ones in the service. (15:38-18:33)... She does not recall seeing very many Black or Mexican women at Lockheed. Before she took a leave of absence, she worked with a Black woman named Rosie. Perry recalls seeing Rosie in her department and wondered why the White women ate lunch with her. Perry had never been around Blacks before and thought that her leadman was punishing her by pairing her up with a Black woman. However, once she started working with Rosie, they became friends and Perry abandoned her racial prejudices. (18:33-20:44)... After Perry stopped doing bench work, she was transferred to work on the trailing edge of the Constellation tail assembly. In addition to riveting and bucking, she also learned how to read blueprints. She worked closely with the leadman and a co-worker accused her of having an affair with him. (20:44-22:13)... Whenever her husband came home on leave, Perry was allowed to take time off from work to be with him. She talks about the time she and a couple of Navy wives drove to San Jose to meet their husbands for the weekend. (22:13-24:36)... As the war drew to a close, Perry anticipated her husband's return and her departure from Lockheed. When he wrote to her about the date of his return, she immediately put her notice in at the plant., but then changed that date so that she would be eligible for vacation pay. She could not recall there being any layoffs after VJ-Day. However, she admits that she was so excited to leave the plant that she did not pay attention to what was happening around her. She figured that women quit as the men came home. End of tape. *** File: rrrhperry5.mp3 (0:04-2:23)... When Perry's husband came home after the war, he told her that she should continue working at Lockheed because her $1.25/hour was far more than what he would make working for the Southern Pacific. Content to stay home, she rejected the idea. When the government began auctioning off some of their boats, she and her husband purchased a landing craft. After two years of remodeling the boat, they started a charter business on the weekends. Her husband also took a month off each summer to run charters. (2:23-5:13)... Perry enjoyed being a full-time homemaker after the war. However, after about two or three years she became bored and went to work for JC Penneys during the Christmas rush. Her husband was not happy about her decision to go back to work, even if it was a temporary arrangement. He wanted his cup of coffee ready when he came home. The only reason he encouraged her to work during the war was so that she could help pay their mortgage while he was in the service. (5:13-6:25)... The war brought the women together in her neighborhood. After the war, however, this closeness faded, especially when her neighborhood girlfriends moved away. (6:25-6:44)... Until 1962, when she and her husband joined the Law Order of Moose, Perry was not involved in activities outside the home. She has remained active in that organization for the past nineteen years. (6:44-13:59)... Perry worked as a deck hand during the years she and her husband chartered their boat. They both took a navigational course offered by the Coast Guard Auxiliary, which she passed. Her husband later got his navigational license. She enjoyed chartering their boat, but the weekend schedule became very tiring, especially when she began going through menopause. In 1960, they sold their last boat and purchased a camper and went on camping and fishing expeditions on the West Coast and British Columbia for four years. Her husband retired in 1972 and was diagnosed with cancer in 1979. (13:59-18:17)... Perry's son joined the military during the Korean War and served for two years. When he returned from Korea, he married but his wife died five months later. He remarried and had a son. After his second marriage failed, he married a woman with six children and his son was treated like an outsider. He moved in with Perry and her husband in June 1969 and lived with them until 1973. Perry's grandson was a behavior problem during his adolescence, but eventually got his act together and pursued a successful career at Lockheed. (Perry shows the interviewer photographs of her family.) (18:17-20:44)... Perry never thought of going back to work after her short stint at JC Penneys. Although she enjoys being a housewife, she often wishes that she had the opportunity to pursue a career in nursing. She wanted to be a nurse when she was younger because her older sister was pursing a nursing career and Perry idolized her. Her sister died in 1918 in the influenza epidemic. (20:44-21:43)... Perry's son never had contact with his biological father after she divorced him in 1934. However, he stayed in touch with his father's relatives. During the war, Perry received a letter from her ex-husband's sister requesting that she fill out paperwork stipulating that she had not seen or heard from her ex-husband for seven years. At that time, his family had him declared legally dead. (21:43-22:41)... Perry believes that women are entitled to equal rights and equal pay. Although, "I wouldn't want to compete with men in the outside world and the business world... women should have the privilege and the opportunity and the wages to do it." (22:41-25:50)... Perry notes that working in defense helped her become "self-sufficient and independent, emotionally.... It gave me the realization that I could get along on my own if I had to." She enjoyed doing mechanical work at Lockheed and would have continued in this line of work had she stayed with the company after the war. Although she had experience with household tools prior to going to work in defense, her knowledge of mechanics increased during the war and gave her more confidence to complete home improvement projects, as well as help her husband rebuild and maintain their boats during the postwar years. End of tape.
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