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Kushner, Florence (audio interview #2 of 4)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the second of four interviews conducted with Flo Kushner as part of a project for a women's oral history class at CSULB.
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- 2021-02-01
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- SUBJECT BIO - Flo Kushner was a communist organizer starting with her teen years when she joined the Young Pioneers and later in YCL and CP. She was the youngest of three children born into a family of socialist believers. Despite their beliefs, they fled Russia following the 1905 revolution as a result of the ensuing pogroms. Although Kushner recalled living in pretty squalid conditions in the tenements of New York as a child, by the time she was a little older, the family had moved to the Bronx. This is where she received her radical political education - from the street meetings in the neighborhood and from joining her mother on the ILGWU picket lines. She joined the Young Pioneers when she was twelve. Despite her mother's aspirations for her to attend college, after two years Kushner dropped out of Hunter College and joined her sister in Chicago. Following in her sister's footsteps, she went to work at Armour Packing Company to organize the workers, and later began to work in radio manufacturing. Kushner married in 1934 when she was seventeen. Her husband was also active in YCL/CP and both worked in radio manufacturing. She continued to work on an off until after the birth of her second child in 1942, when she stayed home for two years. After her husband went into the military, she went to work in a war manufacturing plant and became an active organizer for the UE. In the late 1940s/early 1950, Kushner became the CP organizational secretary for the the Illinois district until she was sent underground by the party in 1950-1951. After her divorce in 1958, she moved to Los Angeles with her new husband, Sam Kushner, who worked for the People's World. She gave up on trying to get factory jobs and instead went into white collar work. Although she scaled back her activities in the CP, Kushner was active in the peace and freedom movement, farm workers and Chicano movements in the 1970s. The interview with Kushner was conducted as a student project for a women's oral history class at CSULB. TOPICS - family history; family life; radical political education; Arbeiter Ring and IWO; demonstrations during Sacco-Vanzetti trial; collaboration between the IWO and YCL/Young Pioneers; YCL activities; radio manufacturing work; Armour Packing House; union organizing for YCL/CP; dating and social life; meeting husband and marital relationship; childbirth; work and family responsibilities; childcare; Depression; unemployment councils; Foley Square trial demonstrations; sexism and gender discrimination in the CP; and organizing the radio industry;socioeconomic status; work history; anti-fascist movement in YCL/CP; union organizing; working conditions; blacklisted status; leadership position in the CP; sexism and gender discrimination in the CP; CP women's commissions in the CP; CP's view of Nazi-Soviet Pact; husband's enlistment during WWII; war work @ Stewart Warner; wages and working conditions; Earl Browder and the CPA; daily schedule and childcare arrangements; union activities in UE; work place demographics; postwar layoffs; and red baiting;
- *** File: reffkushner3.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-1:12)... Kushner shared a special bond with her grandmother because the two conversed and corresponded in Jewish. Her grandmother was the primary caretaker during the years Kushner's mother worked outside the home, and since Kushner was the youngest child in the family, she spent more time with her grandmother than her older brother and sister did. (1:12-4:22)... Kushner's mother was a member of the ILGWU, while her father was primarily employed in the laundry industry, which was unorganized at that time. However, both supported labor unions and the entire family participated in strikes and demonstrations. In addition to these activities, she recalls attending street meetings organized by the SP, the CP and the YCL where various subjects were freely and openly debated. She also accompanied her parents to demonstrations protesting the incarceration and execution of Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti. She joined the Young Pioneers when she was twelve or thirteen years old. (4:22-6:26)... The group of people with whom Kushner worked at Armour & Company was ethnically diverse and included Eastern Europeans and Blacks. There were hostilities between Polish and Black workers and the number of Blacks in meatpacking plants decreased until the United Packing Workers Union was formed and these groups were united on common ground. When organizing plants, working conditions were emphasized rather than any social problems occurring outside the plant. (6:26-9:19)... Members of the YCL who went to work in non-union plants in an effort to organize workers were called colonizers. All non-union plants in mass production industries were targeted by the YCL. Once insiders were placed in the plant, organizing efforts would develop outside the plant, which included distributing leaflets and the party's newspaper, as well as visiting people in their homes. (9:19-12:57)... Kushner's parents were not members of the CP when she was active with the YCL. Although they supported the party, they did not join its ranks until later in life. When they immigrated to the US, they joined the Arbeiter Ring, a Jewish fraternal organization that advocated socialist ideals. Factional disputes between radicals and conservatives resulted in the radicals splintering off into the IWO (International Workers Order), which supported the CP. Her parents joined the IWO and "directed us to the communist movement." She recalls the demonstrations that took place in her community to protest the execution of Nicola Sacco Bartolomeo Vanzetti, which were partly organized and led by the CP. (12:57-15:49)... Although Kushner was interested in the opposite sex when she was in the YCL, she did not date and was not sexually active. Her social interaction with boys occurred within a group setting. She was aware of sexual promiscuity and "free love" among her comrades, but she did not participate nor did she engage in the smoking or drinking that was popular with her friends. She did not date boys in college because she attended a women's college. Her love life changed after she began working in Chicago and she married a short time later. (15:49-17:20)... Kushner married in 1934 when she was seventeen years old. Her husband also was a member of the YCL/CP. At the time they met, she was working as a radio assembler. She moved out of her sister's home and in with a family whose home was closer to her workplace. Her husband was one of the sons living in this home. They began going to YCL/CP meetings together and started dating soon after. (17:20-21:03)... Kushner had her first child in 1938 and was off work for five months. When she returned, she and her husband moved in with his parents so that they could take care of her son. When they were unavailable, she hired a baby-sitter. She managed to find jobs close to home and occasionally worked at night so that she could be with her daughter during the day. Her husband also took care of their daughter when he was unemployed. She notes that "there were problems because I was working instead of just taking care of my own house." She discusses her mother-in-law's political activities during the Spanish civil war, when one of her sons was in Spain fighting. (21:03-22:31)... Although Kushner was raised in a stable household, her parents argued about monetary issues and her father's dreams of opening his own business. He failed at two separate business ventures before going to work at a steam laundry. They also argued about the division of labor at home because her mother bore the brunt of the domestic and childcare responsibilities. (22:31-25:28)... Kushner recalls the days of unemployment and struggle during the Depression. After the banks were reopened, her parents waited in a long line at their bank only to discover they had lost most of their savings. She notes that her family was involved in the "movement that helped form the unemployment councils." Some of this work involved fighting for welfare, eviction rights and rent controls, as well as carrying furniture back into the homes of those evicted during the Depression. (25:28-29:39)... Kushner was involved in the "work or wages" demonstrations that took place in the 1930s. These struggles culminated with a massive protest in Union Square on March 6th, which ended in bloodshed as a result of police brutality. Prior to this demonstration, she participated in community actions organized by the Young Pioneers and the YCL dealing with issues affecting women and children. (29:39-30:34)... Kushner left New York because of the conflict with her mother over her decision to work instead of continuing a college education. Her sister convinced her that the only way she would ever get factory experience was if she moved away from home. At that time, Kushner accepted her sister's invitation to come live with her in Chicago. (30:34-32:03)... The Young Pioneers was the first level of activity in the communist organization. The membership included youths up to the age of eighteen. Just as the CP provided guidance and leadership to the YCL, the YCL fulfilled this role for the Young Pioneers. Kushner was a troop leader in the Young Pioneers, which involved developing activities for the group. The main thrust of the YCL was "geared towards the people in the shops and the unemployed and the other problems of the young people." (32:03-32:58)... Rather than taking orders from the top leaders of the CP, the rank and file discussed issues and developed a plan of action together. In some instances, however, orders came down from the top and were carried out without question. (32:58-34:26)... Talking about women's status in the CP, Kushner comments: "It was not open doors for women. We had plenty of problems in the CP around the role of women." She encountered the same problems while doing union work and constantly found herself struggling for recognition. It was easier for her to organize the radio manufacturing industry, which employed a large number of women, than the male-dominated farm implement industry. (34:26-35:44)... Although organizing techniques used by men and women were very similar, organizers had to appeal to workers based on their individual needs. If a man did not understand women's problems, he would find it more difficult to organize them. In a gender-mixed factory, organizers worked together in assessing workers' needs and determining the best methods to organize the work force. (35:44-40:09)... The IWO was established by left-wing Jews. Although the organization was created by and for Jews, additional sections were developed by other ethnic groups. The purpose of the IWO was to provide inexpensive insurance and "teach and support working class struggles of all kinds." In collaboration with the YCL and the Young Pioneers, the IWO formed children's groups that offered cultural programs so that they would not completely assimilate into American culture. As with the Young Pioneers, the IWO children's programs had an economic and political component that stressed class consciousness and working-class values. Kushner participated in the development of these programs just before she left New York. (40:09-41:42)... The Young Pioneers eventually disbanded on its own while the IWO was "wiped out by court action [after it] was declared on the attorney general's list of subversives". When she was a member of the Young Pioneers, the group did not wear uniforms because of budget constraints. During parades, however, they wore white blouses and a red handkerchief or a hat. (41:42-42:54)... Children in the Young Pioneers were not immune to the harassment by the authorities during demonstrations or street meetings organized by the CP. (42:54-43:40)... Kushner's parents never considered returning to Russia during the revolution because their lives were already well established in the US and the conditions in Russia were unknown to them at that time. End of tape. *** File: reffkushner4.mp3 (0:00-3:17)... Kushner and her husband moved around a lot after they married in 1934. Like most working-class people they struggled. Both worked in the radio, machine and tool industry doing various jobs for short periods, never settling in one place for too long. She eventually left this type of work for a steady position at Montgomery Ward. Outside the workplace, they continued their activities with the YCL. The 1930s marked the beginning of the anti-fascist movement and they were active in that as well as organizing workers for the labor movement. YCL/CP cells functioned inside the plants as an organizing force around working-class issues and "laid the groundwork for unionization." (3:17-5:45)... Kushner believed that It was important for workers to establish a united front against poor working conditions and wages and prior to unionization, YCL/CP cells inside the plants helped workers develop ways to deal with their grievances. One of Kushner's organizing strategies was to distribute literature to workers as they entered the plants. On a few occasions, she was confronted by the company's goon squad and "roughed up." However, only women organizers were sent to certain factories because company thugs "were not as rough with the women." Depending on the needs of the workers and the severity of the conditions in the plant, organizers would defend themselves during these confrontations. (5:45-7:36)... Kushner was fired from her jobs whenever she was uncovered as an organizer. She would not find out that she was blacklisted until she applied for work at another factory and was either turned away or fired shortly after starting the job without any explanation. She ceased using a fake name and began using her husband's last name after they married in 1934. She did not change her name after she was blacklisted, but simply went from factory to factory searching for work until she was hired. (7:36-8:58)... Kushner spent most her evenings attending meetings or classes and keeping up with her organizing responsibilities. She and her husband assumed leadership positions in the CP chapter in their community and they were very busy fulfilling these roles as well. (8:58-14:17)... Although women in the CP talked amongst themselves about their issues, the party set up women's commissions on several occasions for the purposes of organizing activities for women and providing a platform for their problems. Kushner found the commissions to be unsuccessful and believes that it was because the party tried to solve the individual problems in the home. Issues addressed by these commissions included childcare, gender roles, and the underlying questions of women's role inside and outside the home. Women ran up against chauvinism and discrimination as they tried to change their traditional roles and when they wanted to move into leadership positions within the CP. (14:17-16:39)... Note: there is a short pause in this segment when Kushner answers the telephone. At the time, Kushner had very little knowledge or understanding of the Stalin-Hitler Non Aggression Pact. She accepted the party line that it was a necessary maneuver by the Soviet Union in order to defend itself against its enemies. She could not recall there being any debates or dissension within the party over this issue. [Editor's note: former members of the CP most often refer to it as the Nazi-Soviet Pact. The actual pact was called the "German-Soviet Boundary and Friendship Pact."] (16:39-18:12)... Kushner's husband volunteered for military service in 1944 because, like many communists, he wanted to be a part of the war against fascism. (18:12-23:10)... Kushner gave birth to her second child, a son, in 1942. At that time, she quit working for about two years and her husband worked nights in a war production plant. Her activities in the CP continued at a steady pace during the war years. She was active in community groups and sold war bonds in order to advance the war efforts in the community. She also participated in the struggle for rent and price controls. Under the leadership of Earl Browder, the CP changed its name to the CPA following the Yalta Conference. Browder envisioned an internationalism that would eradicate capitalism and asked communists to cease operating within smaller cells and become more visible with their activities. As a result, the CP began developing larger groups in the community and she became the president of a chapter with approximately 150 members. (23:10-27:30)... Kushner had been working in a clerical capacity at Montgomery Ward when she left to have her second child in 1942. When she returned to work after her husband enlisted, she was hired at Stewart Warner, an automobile instrument manufacturer that was retooled to make airplane instruments during the war. The workers in the plant were represented by the UE. Kushner's wartime wages were substantially higher than previously. The company gave automatic raises to new workers after thirty and sixty days on the job. She sent her children to a private nursery school during the day until the CP convinced the public school in her community to open a nursery. She dropped both of her children off at school in the morning and picked them up in the evening after work. (27:30-31:36)... Kushner viewed the attack on Pearl Harbor as further evidence of the rise of fascism, and doesn't recall any discussion about the US wanting or pushing for a conflict with Japan. After her husband enlisted and was sent overseas, it was difficult to manage all of her responsibilities. She was typically up by 4:00 a.m. getting ready for work and prepare breakfast for her children. She was lucky to have neighbors to help out when she needed them to look in on her children. She usually worked an eight-hour day or more, after which she came home to prepare dinner for her children and get ready for an evening of meetings with either the CP or at her union local. (31:36-34:35)... When Kushner started working at Stewart Warner, the UE had only recently organized the plant and the people in her department were not accustomed to union representation. The company was anti-union and attempted to sabotage the union by getting their people to run for union offices so that they could create problems for the union from within. Her department was particularly difficult to organize because their foreman was a "Nazi." Two-thirds of the workers in the shop were women and the company began hiring different ethnicities for the first time during the war, including Jews and Blacks. (34:35-39:30)... Although Kushner heard about Hitler's anti-Semitic policies, she did not learn the full extent of his actions until after the war was over and concentration camps were liberated. She also heard stories about the persecution of Jews from a Jewish woman she worked with during the war. She does not believe that news of the Holocaust caused the CP to regret its earlier decision to support the Nazi-Soviet alliance. However, the party lost credibility in the US because of this stance. Editor's note: former members of the CP most often refer to it as the Nazi-Soviet Pact. The actual pact was called the "German-Soviet Boundary and Friendship Pact."] (39:30-43:33)... Kushner's husband was wounded during WWII. When he returned home, she continued to work. Women were pressured to leave the plants in order to free up jobs for returning veterans. Unemployment levels increased following the war when defense contracts ceased and wartime industries reconverted. Her department at Stewart Warner continued to produce during the postwar years and she was not at risk of losing her job. She felt even more secure because she had seniority in the plant and was a shop steward. However, during union contract negotiations, she was fired, charged with not being a good worker, for misusing her steward's time at the expense of the company, and for being a communist. End of tape.
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