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Rozner, Sarah (audio interview #9 of 20)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the seventeenth interview with Sarah Rozner conducted in her home. The interview is rather wide ranging and covers both her protective attitude about women in the union and her philosophical and political beliefs. TOPICS - development of women's and feminist consciousness; activism on behalf of women; personal struggles in the union; and attitude towards women forming their own labor union;attitude towards a separate women's union; ideas about progress, social evolution and capitalism versus industrialism; and feelings of failure with regard to the Women's Local in Chicago; 11/29/1973
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- SUBJECT BIO - Sarah Rozner joined the ranks of the labor movement the minute she set foot on US soil and began working in men's clothing in Chicago just prior to the 1910 strike. She organized practically every shop in which she worked - unless she was fired first - and was particularly interested in mobilizing women and helping them to assert their rights. Her woman/feminist consciousness led her to work on the establishment of a Woman's Local of the ACWA in Chicago (Local 275). She worked with other women in the ACWA to establish a Woman's Bureau, but did not succeed. She became one of the first women Business Agents in tailoring in Chicago in 1921, and held various positions in the shops and in the union. When she moved to Los Angeles in 1938, she continued to organize at the shop level, establishing education programs for workers at Louart. She continued to advocate for women, and when she retired in 1959, she established a scholarship for women. Even after her retirement, Rozner remained involved with the union, became a member of CLUW (Coalition of Labor Women) after its formation, and remained outspoken on women's issues, particularly in the labor movement. The interviews with Rozner totaled almost hours, divided fairly evenly between her activities in Chicago and in Los Angeles. She was interviewed as part of the Feminist History Research Project labor series, referred by the ACWA. INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the seventeenth interview with Sarah Rozner conducted in her home. The interview is rather wide ranging and covers both her protective attitude about women in the union and her philosophical and political beliefs. TOPICS - development of women's and feminist consciousness; activism on behalf of women; personal struggles in the union; and attitude towards women forming their own labor union;attitude towards a separate women's union; ideas about progress, social evolution and capitalism versus industrialism; and feelings of failure with regard to the Women's Local in Chicago;
- File: lhgwsrozner33.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-6:34)... Tape introduction. When she went to work for the corset factory in Chicago, Rozner was interested in how women were treated both in the shops and the unions. It was hard for her not be concerned since all of the workers in this shop were women, with the exception of the pressers. Even as a child, she was concerned about how the other girls were treated in her community, often fighting the boys who bothered her friends. She digresses into a discussion on protecting a woman at Hart, Schaffner, and Marx. She admired this woman, who was a philosophical anarchist. When this woman was attacked at the shop, Rozner defended her and admitted that she would have committed murder if someone hurt this woman. Although she was interested in protecting the workers, her interest was primarily in the women. Whenever she saw an opportunity to advance women in a job or office, she did her best to do so. (6:34-12:05)... The first time she recalls making a stand for women occurred in 1916-17 when she was working for Hart, Schaffner, and Marx and protected a woman who was being harassed by the floorlady of the shop, grabbing and threatening her. She recounts another incident at a shop where the workers were required to walk up three flights of stairs because the employer refused to fix the elevator. In response, Rozner organized a work stoppage with some of the other women in the shop. Although she considers herself a strong woman, she recalls thinking about committing suicide because the union made it very difficult for her when she began organizing the Women's Local and increasing her activity in the union. (12:05-17:13)... Rozner describes an incident at a Local meeting in 1918-19, when she banged her chair against the floor because the chairman would not let her have the floor. She wanted to speak on behalf of the women because they were being mistreated in the shop. When she made a motion, the only woman who seconded her was Hilda Shapiro, who became her close friend for the rest of their lives. Rozner explains that she always fought battles for other people. Personally, she did not need the union because she was capable of defending herself. However, by helping other people, she also received the benefits. She describes herself as a rebel who was always in opposition to the union. Even though she followed the rules most of the time, when the union violated the rules, she was the first one to fight and bend the rules as well. (17:13-26:48)... When she worked as a Business Agent for Hart, Schaffner, and Marx, she was only allowed go into the shop accompanied by a Labor Manager. However, the other male Business Agents were permitted to go in by themselves. The union brothers sanctioned this treatment. She asked to be transferred out of Hart, Schaffner, and Marx because she was tired of this mistreatment. At the new shops, the Labor Managers were more compassionate and taught her how to set prices. The union was constantly putting obstacles in her way and at Hart, Schaffner, and Marx, the shop chairman, employer, and union Business Agents worked against her because she was a woman. She refused to socialize with these men and, most of the time, kept her personal life separate from her professional life. (26:48-42:18)... With regard to the idea of women organizing a separate union, she admits that she needs to read more about this subject. She digresses into a discussion about reading, indicating that she often reads things to help her soul. Her readings have convinced her that progress and revolutions are not instigated by the lower classes. In general, she does not believe that women forming their own union would do any good. This type of union would need to be similar to the AFL/CIO union with a main union and then affiliated branches. When she was working for the union she did not think about forming a separate women's union. She simply did things instinctively, not intellectually. Her only comprehension was improving conditions in the shops. It will be necessary to educate women in the shop and in the union office in order to form a separate women's union. It will also be necessary to liberate men and make them understand why women require a separate union. File: lhgwsrozner34.mp3 (0:00-9:38)... The tape begins abruptly with a continued discussion on her attitude towards women forming a separate union. She does not believe in separation between the sexes; she is not a feminist to that extent. Although she wants women to have power, she does not support women forming a coalition or a sister organization to the union. However, she advocates that women have equality and if they are qualified for positions, then they should be provided with every opportunity to work in those positions. Her goal in the ACWA was to influence workers to use their power because they were the majority. When she was working for women, they told her to go home and do the dishes. Women may collectively gain political power, but she does not think they will succeed in gaining industrial power. She has hope, however, that if workers are educated, a revolution is possible. She was incapable of waging this revolutionary fight when she worked with the ACWA, and considers herself a failure because the Women's Local (275) in Chicago dissolved. (9:38-13:48)... Her initial battle cry was to alleviate the workers from the injustices in the shop and within the ACWA. She believes that these injustices still exist, but that they will improve over time. Before she developed her ideal on the process of evolution, she believed that changes in the labor movement were inevitable and that things either progressed or regressed. Today, she believes that there will be no revolution in the labor movement without the process of evolution. But people are responsible for pushing this process forward. Although she believes her contribution was small, it was a part of a larger contribution towards progress. (13:48-17:30)... She reads an entry in her journal pertaining a retirement meeting she attended at the ACWA on November 28, 1973. At this meeting, she requested that a life memorial be instituted for Bessie Abramovitz Hillman. (17:30-30:49)... Rozner recalls that the philosophical anarchist she defended at Hart, Schaffner, and Marx was Fannie Popkin. This woman was suspended on several occasions and Rozner often took these suspension and tore them up. Even after helping Popkin on several occasions, Popkin chided Rozner for her political beliefs and encouraged her to study philosophy instead. She digresses into a discussion about observing people in the shop after she was successful in getting them things, such as raises or other benefits. She wanted to see how they reacted and if they were appreciative of her efforts. She believes that even without the union, improving labor conditions would have taken just as long because progress is inevitable. Eliminating capitalism would lead to progress, she believes and wonders what life would be like without a capitalistic system and engages in a long, philosophical/political discussion.End of tape.
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